Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained
Discussion
aniesigh said:
Well according to the NTTA, the max you can tow is calculated by subtracting the GVW from the GTW, which in the case of a t350 LWB Transit would give a tow capacity of 2000kgs (5500, 3500) yet Ford state a max tow capacity of 2800kgs.
While i don't disgree this is correct, i'm concerned that if i actually used this combo for towing 2800kgs that i would have a hard time convincing someone i was legal if the vin plate had 5500kgs and 3500kgs on it, as the tow capacity never seems to be stamed on the vehicle anywhere!
There is nothing in RTA law which states anything about a towing capacity but there is in the C&U regs which can only be prosecuted in a court not at the roadside by FPN etcWhile i don't disgree this is correct, i'm concerned that if i actually used this combo for towing 2800kgs that i would have a hard time convincing someone i was legal if the vin plate had 5500kgs and 3500kgs on it, as the tow capacity never seems to be stamed on the vehicle anywhere!
aniesigh said:
jagracer said:
I am probably being dense but I have no idea what you mean
Well according to the NTTA, the max you can tow is calculated by subtracting the GVW from the GTW, which in the case of a t350 LWB Transit would give a tow capacity of 2000kgs (5500, 3500) yet Ford state a max tow capacity of 2800kgs.While i don't disgree this is correct, i'm concerned that if i actually used this combo for towing 2800kgs that i would have a hard time convincing someone i was legal if the vin plate had 5500kgs and 3500kgs on it, as the tow capacity never seems to be stamed on the vehicle anywhere!
jagracer said:
ROG can correct me if I'm wrong but on your figures providing you don't go over the GTW you are legal. So if the GVW of the van is 3500 you could tow a 2800kg trailer providing you don't load the van to it's maximum weight. So to tow 2800kg you'd only be able to load the van to a max of 2700kg.
Spot onI have just had an email from a technical person at dvsa confirming that as long as gtw, gvw, and axle weights are not exceeded they are happy. He said although some manufacturers quote a towing capacity they are not interested in this.
Good useful info for me, thanks everyone. Didn't doubt you Rog it's just nice to hear it from the horses mouth!
Cheers
Good useful info for me, thanks everyone. Didn't doubt you Rog it's just nice to hear it from the horses mouth!
Cheers
aniesigh said:
I have just had an email from a technical person at dvsa confirming that as long as gtw, gvw, and axle weights are not exceeded they are happy. He said although some manufacturers quote a towing capacity they are not interested in this.
Good useful info for me, thanks everyone. Didn't doubt you Rog it's just nice to hear it from the horses mouth!
Cheers
DVSA unlikely to prosecute for towing capacity - that is usually a police one when they see an unsafe combination because it must go to courtGood useful info for me, thanks everyone. Didn't doubt you Rog it's just nice to hear it from the horses mouth!
Cheers
Hi can someone knowledgeable please help me! (Rog?)
Both myself and my girlfriend have B+E trailer licences.
I have a Jeep Cherokee with braked towing capability of 3250KG, and have just bought a Transit with a 2000KG braked towing capability.
They will both be used to tow my car trailer which has a plated MAM of 2000KG and carries a light kit car so no problems there.
However...
My girlfriends horse box has a MAM plate of 2340KGs so the Jeep I understand will tow it fine.
The Transit has a max braked tow capacity of 2000KS and I had understood I would need to get the trailer downplated (it only every carries one horse) to 2000KGs if I wanted to tow it with the van even when empty?
According to two Ifor Williams dealers this is not the case and I can just tow it regardless with the Transit as long as the horse box does not weigh over 2000KGs!
This is contrary to what I have always thought, have the laws changed recently or have I always been misinformed?
Thanks for reading
Both myself and my girlfriend have B+E trailer licences.
I have a Jeep Cherokee with braked towing capability of 3250KG, and have just bought a Transit with a 2000KG braked towing capability.
They will both be used to tow my car trailer which has a plated MAM of 2000KG and carries a light kit car so no problems there.
However...
My girlfriends horse box has a MAM plate of 2340KGs so the Jeep I understand will tow it fine.
The Transit has a max braked tow capacity of 2000KS and I had understood I would need to get the trailer downplated (it only every carries one horse) to 2000KGs if I wanted to tow it with the van even when empty?
According to two Ifor Williams dealers this is not the case and I can just tow it regardless with the Transit as long as the horse box does not weigh over 2000KGs!
This is contrary to what I have always thought, have the laws changed recently or have I always been misinformed?
Thanks for reading
Timbuk2 said:
According to two Ifor Williams dealers this is not the case and I can just tow it regardless with the Transit as long as the horse box does not weigh over 2000KGs!
This is contrary to what I have always thought, have the laws changed recently or have I always been misinformed?
Thanks for reading
Ifor Williams are correct just keep the actual towed weight under 2000kg, the law has never changed you just read too much crap in PH.This is contrary to what I have always thought, have the laws changed recently or have I always been misinformed?
Thanks for reading
Timbuk2 said:
Ok thanks, I just rang yet another Ifor williams dealer and he told me that if the trailer is plated to 2340KG the van would be illegally towing it even if it was empty!!! Also he could downplate it for me?!
Why does everyone think different things
You can't down plate a trailer just like that, it's a manufacturers plate and I believe It's illegal to tamper with it. He's just trying to make some money out of you. I've been towing a 3500kg trailer with my Landcruiser for years and that's only plated to tow 2800kg. Don't get confused with Licensing laws (B licence) which are restricted to plated weights, with your B+E licence it's what you actually tow not the trailer plated weight.Why does everyone think different things
The only thing with the Transit is to be careful about overloading the van's rear axle when you load the trailer up.
The transit has a load carrying capacity of 1600KG Front axel and 1760KG rear axel so it should be fine with it empty.
Thanks, he has actually rung me back and said he was wrong and you can tow it if it's within the tow vehicles limits as you say
And he sent me this memo!
Thanks, he has actually rung me back and said he was wrong and you can tow it if it's within the tow vehicles limits as you say
And he sent me this memo!
Edited by Timbuk2 on Tuesday 2nd December 19:22
As various things have changed over the past couple of years I thought this update of what the current laws are on licences and trailer training needing doing ......
These simple rules apply to all B and B+E category drivers no matter when the test was passed
B category
Vehicle not more than 3500 kg plated GVW
B category towing
A trailer of 750 kg max plated MAM may be towed by a B category vehicle making a possible total plated MAM of 4250 kg
If a trailer over 750 kg plated MAM is towed by a B category vehicle then the plated GVW of the vehicle added to the plated MAM of the trailer (MTPLM of a caravan) must not total more than 3500 kg
B+E category
Towing a trailer with a B category vehicle where the trailer is not over 3500 kg plated MAM
To tow a trailer over 3500 kg plated MAM the category needed is C1+E
Below goes deeper into the rules......
Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained
Licensing laws are based on plated weights not actual weights.
GVW, MAM or MTPLM means maximum permissible legal weight something can weigh when fully loaded.
The towing vehicle GVW can be obtained from the V5 registered keepers form listed as maximum permissible mass, the handbook, or a plate somewhere on the vehicle – usually under bonnet or hidden in a door frame – the top figure is always the GVW.
Towing capacity (manufacturer actual towing weight limit) – not legally enforceable in the RTA but based on safety and engine power under certain conditions and can be prosecuted for excess under C&U reg 100
GTW - the max legal weight the vehicle and trailer can ACTUALLY weigh when added together. This does not refer to the total of the vehicle GWV and trailer MAM weights.
In most cases, the GVW added to the towing capacity will also be the GTW.
The trailer info can be obtained from a plate on the trailer, by calling the trailer manufacturer, or on the internet. If no plate then the total of the TYRE LOAD RATINGS http://www.blackcircles.com/general/load-rating will be used by the authorities to determine the MAM to a maximum of 3500 even if the total is more than that.
There is no law or rule which states that the towing capacity of a vehicle must be able to cope with the plated MAM of a trailer but there are plenty of internet myths on this.
The only legally recognised way to down plate a trailer of 3500 kgs MAM or less is to contact the trailer manufacturer usually at very little cost.
The laws/rules are these for both B+E & B licence towing.
The GVW of the vehicle must not be exceeded (RTA law)
The GTW must not be exceeded (RTA law)
The plated MAM of the trailer must not be exceeded (RTA law).
The towing capacity should not be exceeded (can be prosecutable under C&U regulation 100).
The lower of the trailer MAM or the towing capacity must/should be used as the maximum actual weight when loaded.
For B licence towing with a trailer over 750 kgs MAM.
The vehicle GVW added to the trailer MAM must not exceed 3500 kg (RTA law)
EXAMPLE
Vehicle
GVW 2050 kg
Towing capacity 1700 kg
GTW 3750 kg
Trailer
Un-laden/empty 700 kg
MAM 2000 kg
For B+E licence towing the trailer can be loaded with 1000 kgs because 1000+700=1700 kg which is the towing capacity.
For B licence towing the trailer would need down plating from 2000 kgs to a maximum of 1450 kg.
The reason is that 1450+2050=3500 which is the maximum allowed for B licence towing.
The trailer can be loaded with 750 kg because 750+700=1450 kg which is the trailer MAM.
Caravan weights work on a slightly different system as they take into account the recommended (not legal) 85% towing advice.
SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving
The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqw6Ua3kmFc&fea... - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise = http://www.drivesafedriving.co.uk/b_e_rev_movie.ht... - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
DSA REVERSING TEST AREA DIAGRAM = https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao_5KOe8dGg&fea... - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test
The trailer must now be loaded with 600 kgs of sand bags or a 1000 kgs water IBC for the test so most companies are now training with that weight in the trailer = https://www.gov.uk/new-laden-testing-rules-for-dri...
Well explained here = http://www.trailertraining-wales.co.uk/test.html
DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos
This is interesting BUT NOT RECOMMENDED – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test that means you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself.
DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS = http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensi...
Remember that the required 600 kgs of sand bags or 1 x 1000 IBC filled with water will be required in the trailer and the load must be secure.
Please post with as much of this info as you can if you want me to answer a specific query - weights in kg please
LICENCE
B or B+E =
VEHICLE
GVW =
Towing capacity =
TRAILER
Un-laden/empty =
MAM =
These simple rules apply to all B and B+E category drivers no matter when the test was passed
B category
Vehicle not more than 3500 kg plated GVW
B category towing
A trailer of 750 kg max plated MAM may be towed by a B category vehicle making a possible total plated MAM of 4250 kg
If a trailer over 750 kg plated MAM is towed by a B category vehicle then the plated GVW of the vehicle added to the plated MAM of the trailer (MTPLM of a caravan) must not total more than 3500 kg
B+E category
Towing a trailer with a B category vehicle where the trailer is not over 3500 kg plated MAM
To tow a trailer over 3500 kg plated MAM the category needed is C1+E
Below goes deeper into the rules......
Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained
Licensing laws are based on plated weights not actual weights.
GVW, MAM or MTPLM means maximum permissible legal weight something can weigh when fully loaded.
The towing vehicle GVW can be obtained from the V5 registered keepers form listed as maximum permissible mass, the handbook, or a plate somewhere on the vehicle – usually under bonnet or hidden in a door frame – the top figure is always the GVW.
Towing capacity (manufacturer actual towing weight limit) – not legally enforceable in the RTA but based on safety and engine power under certain conditions and can be prosecuted for excess under C&U reg 100
GTW - the max legal weight the vehicle and trailer can ACTUALLY weigh when added together. This does not refer to the total of the vehicle GWV and trailer MAM weights.
In most cases, the GVW added to the towing capacity will also be the GTW.
The trailer info can be obtained from a plate on the trailer, by calling the trailer manufacturer, or on the internet. If no plate then the total of the TYRE LOAD RATINGS http://www.blackcircles.com/general/load-rating will be used by the authorities to determine the MAM to a maximum of 3500 even if the total is more than that.
There is no law or rule which states that the towing capacity of a vehicle must be able to cope with the plated MAM of a trailer but there are plenty of internet myths on this.
The only legally recognised way to down plate a trailer of 3500 kgs MAM or less is to contact the trailer manufacturer usually at very little cost.
The laws/rules are these for both B+E & B licence towing.
The GVW of the vehicle must not be exceeded (RTA law)
The GTW must not be exceeded (RTA law)
The plated MAM of the trailer must not be exceeded (RTA law).
The towing capacity should not be exceeded (can be prosecutable under C&U regulation 100).
The lower of the trailer MAM or the towing capacity must/should be used as the maximum actual weight when loaded.
For B licence towing with a trailer over 750 kgs MAM.
The vehicle GVW added to the trailer MAM must not exceed 3500 kg (RTA law)
EXAMPLE
Vehicle
GVW 2050 kg
Towing capacity 1700 kg
GTW 3750 kg
Trailer
Un-laden/empty 700 kg
MAM 2000 kg
For B+E licence towing the trailer can be loaded with 1000 kgs because 1000+700=1700 kg which is the towing capacity.
For B licence towing the trailer would need down plating from 2000 kgs to a maximum of 1450 kg.
The reason is that 1450+2050=3500 which is the maximum allowed for B licence towing.
The trailer can be loaded with 750 kg because 750+700=1450 kg which is the trailer MAM.
Caravan weights work on a slightly different system as they take into account the recommended (not legal) 85% towing advice.
SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving
The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqw6Ua3kmFc&fea... - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise = http://www.drivesafedriving.co.uk/b_e_rev_movie.ht... - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
DSA REVERSING TEST AREA DIAGRAM = https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao_5KOe8dGg&fea... - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test
The trailer must now be loaded with 600 kgs of sand bags or a 1000 kgs water IBC for the test so most companies are now training with that weight in the trailer = https://www.gov.uk/new-laden-testing-rules-for-dri...
Well explained here = http://www.trailertraining-wales.co.uk/test.html
DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos
This is interesting BUT NOT RECOMMENDED – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test that means you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself.
DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS = http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensi...
Remember that the required 600 kgs of sand bags or 1 x 1000 IBC filled with water will be required in the trailer and the load must be secure.
Please post with as much of this info as you can if you want me to answer a specific query - weights in kg please
LICENCE
B or B+E =
VEHICLE
GVW =
Towing capacity =
TRAILER
Un-laden/empty =
MAM =
Rog,
Thanks for the info. Can you check my calculations:
LICENCE
B or B+E = B
VEHICLE
GVW = 2035
Vehicle Actual weight:1547
Towing capacity = 1800(braked)
TRAILER (braked)
Un-laden/empty = 400
MAM = 1600 (currently)
I want to carry a car at <1000kg
I think I need downplate the trailer to 1465 to be legal. I would probably go to 1450 to be on the safe side. This allows me to carry anything up to 1050KG I think.
I think this would make me legal. Can you confirm I have got my figures right? With regards downplating; it is a shared trailer. When I want to use it it would need a 1450 MAM plate, but the other user might need the 1600KG (he is a B+E). Can I have two plates and interchange? I have the facility to make a plate myself, can I do it?...hmmm. I am not trying to plate the trailer up ever, just flick between 1600 and 1450 depending on who is driving and what we are towing.
Regards,
Jon
Thanks for the info. Can you check my calculations:
LICENCE
B or B+E = B
VEHICLE
GVW = 2035
Vehicle Actual weight:1547
Towing capacity = 1800(braked)
TRAILER (braked)
Un-laden/empty = 400
MAM = 1600 (currently)
I want to carry a car at <1000kg
I think I need downplate the trailer to 1465 to be legal. I would probably go to 1450 to be on the safe side. This allows me to carry anything up to 1050KG I think.
I think this would make me legal. Can you confirm I have got my figures right? With regards downplating; it is a shared trailer. When I want to use it it would need a 1450 MAM plate, but the other user might need the 1600KG (he is a B+E). Can I have two plates and interchange? I have the facility to make a plate myself, can I do it?...hmmm. I am not trying to plate the trailer up ever, just flick between 1600 and 1450 depending on who is driving and what we are towing.
Regards,
Jon
Jon_Bmw said:
Rog,
Thanks for the info. Can you check my calculations:
LICENCE
B or B+E = B
VEHICLE
GVW = 2035
Vehicle Actual weight:1547
Towing capacity = 1800(braked)
TRAILER (braked)
Un-laden/empty = 400
MAM = 1600 (currently)
I want to carry a car at <1000kg
I think I need downplate the trailer to 1465 to be legal. I would probably go to 1450 to be on the safe side. This allows me to carry anything up to 1050KG I think.
I think this would make me legal. Can you confirm I have got my figures right? With regards downplating; it is a shared trailer. When I want to use it it would need a 1450 MAM plate, but the other user might need the 1600KG (he is a B+E). Can I have two plates and interchange? I have the facility to make a plate myself, can I do it?...hmmm. I am not trying to plate the trailer up ever, just flick between 1600 and 1450 depending on who is driving and what we are towing.
Regards,
Jon
To change the plate it must go through the manufacturer each timeThanks for the info. Can you check my calculations:
LICENCE
B or B+E = B
VEHICLE
GVW = 2035
Vehicle Actual weight:1547
Towing capacity = 1800(braked)
TRAILER (braked)
Un-laden/empty = 400
MAM = 1600 (currently)
I want to carry a car at <1000kg
I think I need downplate the trailer to 1465 to be legal. I would probably go to 1450 to be on the safe side. This allows me to carry anything up to 1050KG I think.
I think this would make me legal. Can you confirm I have got my figures right? With regards downplating; it is a shared trailer. When I want to use it it would need a 1450 MAM plate, but the other user might need the 1600KG (he is a B+E). Can I have two plates and interchange? I have the facility to make a plate myself, can I do it?...hmmm. I am not trying to plate the trailer up ever, just flick between 1600 and 1450 depending on who is driving and what we are towing.
Regards,
Jon
Your figures are spot on
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