Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained

[hman]

R0G said:

hman said:

xc90 GVW = 2700kg
Rav 4 = unladen = 1275, laden weight = 1825kg

on this trailer http://www.helpfulhirings.co.uk/equipment/trailers...

Link does not work for me

What I really need for a B+E licence holder is ....
The towing capacity for the vehicle
The empty weight of the trailer
The plated MAM of the trailer
The weight you want to put in the trailer

Trailer capacity is 2000kg weight going on it is an empty rav 4 so 1275 no mam details empty trailer weighs 495 kg xc90 is the tow vehicle towing capacity 2250

Edited by hman on Wednesday 7th October 20:09

Edited by hman on Wednesday 7th October 20:13

[R0G]

hman said:

Trailer capacity is 2000kg weight going on it is an empty rav 4 so 1275 no mam details empty trailer weighs 495 kg xc90 is the tow vehicle towing capacity 2250

1275 + 495 = 1770 so well within the 2000 or 2250 capacity
The trailer will need to be plated at 1770 or higher

[BenWeb]

Hope someone can clear this up for me, i want to get a van to tow roughly 2Tons as want somewhere to sleep, been using a car.

I have took the B+E test and passed a while ago but on the dvla website it states the following

"Category B+E

You can drive a category B vehicle with a MAM of 3,500kg with a trailer with a MAM over 750kg.

You can also tow a trailer with a MAM greater than 750kg as long as the combined weight of the category B vehicle and trailer doesn’t exceed a MAM of 3,500kg."
(https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories)

As i read it (2nd paragraph), the maximum I can tow is 3.5t INCLUDING the vehicle/vans weight. Is this true? what is the maximum gross train weight i can drive under B+E entitlement.

Surely that can't be right because most cars these days weigh 2t on their own, which would mean i could only tow 1T under B+E?

Apologies in advance if I'm being stupid, long week brain could be fried!

Edited by BenWeb on Friday 9th October 18:39

[mph1977]

BenWeb said:

Hope someone can clear this up for me, i want to get a van to tow roughly 2Tons as want somewhere to sleep, been using a car.

I have took the B+E test and passed a while ago but on the dvla website it states the following

"Category B+E

You can drive a category B vehicle with a MAM of 3,500kg with a trailer with a MAM over 750kg.

You can also tow a trailer with a MAM greater than 750kg as long as the combined weight of the category B vehicle and trailer doesn’t exceed a MAM of 3,500kg."
(https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories)

As i read it (2nd paragraph), the maximum I can tow is 3.5t INCLUDING the vehicle/vans weight. Is this true? what is the maximum gross train weight i can drive under B+E entitlement.

Surely that can't be right because most cars these days weigh 2t on their own, which would mean i could only tow 1T under B+E?

Apologies in advance if I'm being stupid, long week brain could be fried!

Edited by BenWeb on Friday 9th October 18:39

the 3500 combined MAMs /MTM is for towing an oitherwise B+E combination on a B licence

if you have B+E you are restricted towing vehicle MAM + 3500kg in general terms ( as this is the max towing limit specified by many 'car' makers - it;s generally the big 4*4s and a handful of specced fro mthe factory 3500kg vaans that can do it , it;s also the limit fore overrun brakes )

[R0G]

Having B+E means you can drive a vehicle with a GVW of 3500 kg and tow a trailer with a MAM of 3500 kg making a total MAM of 7000 kg BUT .... the weight you can actually tow will be restricted by the listed towing capacity of the vehicle which can be found in the handbook or on the V5 form

In MOST cases the max towing capacity will be the GTW minus the GVW listed on the vehicle weight plate BUT with vans this is often not the case

Some transit vans are ..
GTW 3500
GVW 2600
GTW - GVW = 900
Towing capacity 1200
As you can see its 1200 not 900 but towing 1200 means the van cannot be an actual weight more than 2300

Many transit vans are
GTW 5500
GVW 3500
towing capacity 2000
In this case GTW - GVW = 2000 so same as listed towing capacity

Dunno about other makes as I only frequent the transit forum

[Roo]

Hi Rog,

Not sure if it's been covered in here but my understanding is that the maximum towable mass on an overrun braked trailer on a ball is 3500kg. That is irrespective of the maximum manufacturer stated figure. So if the manufacturer states a higher figure you can still only tow 3500kg.

That obviously assumes that the tow hitch is EU approved and the towing capacity is listed on the V5c.

I ask because in this thread, http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... , a poster states that he can legally tow considerably more than that. His vehicle won't have an EU hitch and as it would've been IVA tested it won't have a type approved towing capacity.

[R0G]

Roo said:

Hi Rog,

Not sure if it's been covered in here but my understanding is that the maximum towable mass on an overrun braked trailer on a ball is 3500kg. That is irrespective of the maximum manufacturer stated figure. So if the manufacturer states a higher figure you can still only tow 3500kg.

That obviously assumes that the tow hitch is EU approved and the towing capacity is listed on the V5c.

I ask because in this thread, http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... , a poster states that he can legally tow considerably more than that. His vehicle won't have an EU hitch and as it would've been IVA tested it won't have a type approved towing capacity.

You are correct - the max plated MAM for a trailer on over run brakes is 3500kg

Any trailer plated over that must have something like air brakes for example

[Roo]

Thanks Rog. Thought I was going mad for a minute.

[tehguy]

I don't believe there is an upper weight limit for the 50mm hitch. Obviously it will be somewhat limited by what can be towed by the type of vehicles which are using it, and correspondingly the type of trailers likely to be towed by those vehicles. That being said, I have seen some artic lorry tractor units fitted with a 50mm tow ball on the back and a huge genset in place of the 5th wheel, normally used by travelling caterers where the unit tows a standard 3500kg catering trailer and the generator provides the power.

Some category B vehicles can tow more than 3500kg, I know some Land Rovers are approved to tow 4000kg. Land Rover Special Vehicles offers a kit to provide lorry style suzis, so an air braked trailer can be towed. I believe it's a common conversion for American boat trailers which are brought over to the UK.

[Ben 89]

Whilst ringing around enquiring about lessons for my trailer test, I've been told that if i pass my trailer test in an automatic then i can only tow using an auto! is this true.

[mph1977]

Ben 89 said:

Whilst ringing around enquiring about lessons for my trailer test, I've been told that if i pass my trailer test in an automatic then i can only tow using an auto! is this true.

I believe that has changed or is changing - also for group 2 licences ... to the point where one manual pass allows manuals for all categories ...

in the past each category had to passed in a manual for you to gain an manual licence for that category...

then they allooed conversion of group 2 licences by passing in the other category ( i.e. if you had auto cat D, you could pass manual cat C and get manual D as well) ...

[R0G]

Ben 89 said:

Whilst ringing around enquiring about lessons for my trailer test, I've been told that if i pass my trailer test in an automatic then i can only tow using an auto! is this true.

YES that is correct

A change needs to happen in UK road traffic law but until Govt get around to it then it stays the silly law

Hold B manual ...
pass auto LGV C CE or PCV D or DE and get them in manual
pass auto BE, LGV C1 or PCV D1 = get auto not manual

YUP it is daft !!

[Ben 89]

Well thats just stupid, almost as stupid as the main reason that i need to take the test is because i bought a capable tow vehicle and I'm not using a car. thanks for the help guys!

Edited by Ben 89 on Thursday 14th January 21:55

[tehguy]

Ben 89 said:

Whilst ringing around enquiring about lessons for my trailer test, I've been told that if i pass my trailer test in an automatic then i can only tow using an auto! is this true.

Yes, as dumb as that is. Many of the most capable tow vehicles are only automatic now, and in 10 years time I expect there will be no manual gearboxes put in new cars.

[shelf1985]

Hi thanks for all the info contained within this thread its certainly all very confusing!

I always try and stay above the law so would just like to clarify i am legal!

I started buying and selling cars 5 years ago and in that time i have had loads of tow cars trailers and a few recovery trucks etc.

I have settled on a great setup i love which is a kia sorento 05 with a towing max of 2800kg and a polish borq car trailer plated to 2700kg, its about 650-700kg so i have about 2 tonne to play with.

I did take the b+e test in about 2013 cost a fair bit but rules are rules and i did enjoy it.

Anyway my main question really is do i need a tacho or anything like that? Its just my own cars i carry either purchased for resale or sold and being delivered?

Seems daft to have gone to the trouble of doing the test if this is going to trip me up!

Probably should have asked a few years ago but its only after reading this thread im questioning it!

Thanks in advance
Mat

[shelf1985]

Hi thanks for all the info contained within this thread its certainly all very confusing!

I always try and stay above the law so would just like to clarify i am legal!

I started buying and selling cars 5 years ago and in that time i have had loads of tow cars trailers and a few recovery trucks etc.

I have settled on a great setup i love which is a kia sorento 05 with a towing max of 2800kg and a polish borq car trailer plated to 2700kg, its about 650-700kg so i have about 2 tonne to play with.

I did take the b+e test in about 2013 cost a fair bit but rules are rules and i did enjoy it.

Anyway my main question really is do i need a tacho or anything like that? Its just my own cars i carry either purchased for resale or sold and being delivered?

Seems daft to have gone to the trouble of doing the test if this is going to trip me up!

Probably should have asked a few years ago but its only after reading this thread im questioning it!

Thanks in advance
Mat

[Super Slo Mo]

Strictly speaking you need both a tacho and an operators licence.

You're flying under the radar so to speak as you're using a car to tow with, you're unlikely to get pulled by the ministry, but on the off chance you do, you could end up in hot water.

Unless you could be considered a recovery vehicle somehow.

[R0G]

No O licence needed but I reckon you need tacho

[shelf1985]

Wow crazy how much red tape there is going on!

Im not condoning or suggesting anything here but if i was pulled and the car on my trailer was my own property (which in theory it is) and i claimed it was going to be for personal use how would it be proved beyond reasonable doubt that it wasnt?

All hypothetical obviously!

Tacho just seems a bit ott for a very occasional tower sole trader.

Mat

[jeremyc]

shelf1985 said:

Im not condoning or suggesting anything here but if i was pulled and the car on my trailer was my own property (which in theory it is) and i claimed it was going to be for personal use how would it be proved beyond reasonable doubt that it wasnt?

Posts on a public internet forum describing how you are towing for your business?