Is truck "elephant racing" against the law?

[4keymonsta]

SVTRick said:

Adam The Trucker

Artics 54
Any HGV towing either draw bar or upto 3.5 ton trailer 54
Rigid up to 7.5 ton MGVW 60
Rigid up to 20 ton MGVW 58
Rigid up to 32 ton MGVW 56

A couple of MPH is pointless. The reason that we are able to overtake eachover on the flat is because the tacho readings vary quite widely (disregarding those stupid s limiting them below 90kph). 56mph displayed is normally only 53/4 on a GPS. I have just got my hands on a new Renuault that flys past most things because the tacho is spot on. Also take into account the tyre diamiter between new and used and recuts

[Panda76]

Yep speeds can vary a lot.
When we ran Man and Volvos the MANS were the quicker truck and not a slow overtake either.
When we had Stralis in they were quicker then the MANS and not a slow overtake.
We currently have a fleet of volvos now limited to 52 mph "to save fuel" and piss everyone off
Couple of Dafs still up at 56 mph.

[R0G]

Panda76 said:

As it is no-one has spotted the blatantly obvious including Rog which surprises me.
The speed limit for a HGV on a dual is 50 mph.If they all ran to 50 mph they wouldn't be having elephant races.If an HGV was to creep up on another then they could use the extra 6mph to slip past create some distance and then drop back down to 50mph.

I was about to say something but then ...

Panda76 said:

Yep speeds can vary a lot.
We currently have a fleet of volvos now limited to 52 mph

Which is why I did noot mention the 50 limit - many fleets have their motors restricted to 50, some 51 and some 52
A 52 trying to pass a 50 will take some time and although the 52 is technically speeding it would be so very unlikely for them to be pulled for doing it

[heebeegeetee]

ferdyg said:

1. Very few HGV's actually travel overnight in Germany.

2. Works fine in Germany, the law is the law and HGV's seem to abide by it, even British registered ones!!

1. is that true? There are astonishing numbers of hgvs operating at night in the UK, and I'd be surprised if it's much different in Germany. If it is much different then it shows (imo) how Germany invests in infrastructure and we don't - or it show how avariciously consumerist we are in the UK.

2. There are (effectively) no British car drivers in Germany.

I don't think it would work at all in the UK. The dcs and mways would be full of nose-to-tail lorries stuck behind a Picasso or Micra at 30mph with lorry drivers fit to explode. I've driven extensively over Europe over the past 30 years (although not so much recently) and I've not experienced many slow car drivers like we have in abundance in the UK.

As a car driver, I dread an overtaking ban for hgvs.

[loose cannon]

jazzyjeff said:

I believe I've seen that happen a few times

Happened to me in a fully laden l/rover at 3 in the morning on the a303 trying to overtake a tesco artic, got up to the cab of the truck then touched a hill and started to go backwards lol, after the third attempt I made it past to the amusement of the truck driver, we both stuck our thumbs up as I finally got passed him,

[Panda76]

R0G said:

Panda76 said:

As it is no-one has spotted the blatantly obvious including Rog which surprises me.
The speed limit for a HGV on a dual is 50 mph.If they all ran to 50 mph they wouldn't be having elephant races.If an HGV was to creep up on another then they could use the extra 6mph to slip past create some distance and then drop back down to 50mph.

I was about to say something but then ...

Panda76 said:

Yep speeds can vary a lot.
We currently have a fleet of volvos now limited to 52 mph

Which is why I did noot mention the 50 limit - many fleets have their motors restricted to 50, some 51 and some 52
A 52 trying to pass a 50 will take some time and although the 52 is technically speeding it would be so very unlikely for them to be pulled for doing it

True but 52 passing a 50 is a hell of a lot better than a 56.000001 passing a 56.

[Nickyboy]

ferdyg said:

when was the last time you were behind a HGV struggling to do 30mph uphill on a dual carriageway?

Ever been stuck behind a Tesco double decker on the A34? Supermarkets are the worst, they employ agency, buy low power tractors and now run full weight double deckers, oh and limit the trucks to 50mph.
Things that don't help the cause are traffic lights on major junctions which lead to the trucks bunching up. On a run from Southampton a ferry load of trucks can space out nicely until Winchester where they will all bunch up when joining the A34, same again at the A34/M40 where the traffic lights cause the traffic to slow and bunch up again. Ditto from A43, M40, A34 all roundabouts with bloody traffic lights where major trunk roads all join.

[BonzoG]

SVTRick said:

All commercial vans & pickups over 2.5 ton MGVW limited to 60
And banned from outside lane of motorways three lanes or more

What the heck will that achieve, other than a load of mini-elephant races? A poverty spec Transit has more poke than many a small shopping car.

[jm doc]

There's a two lane section of the A1M in Durham heading south of junction 63 (chester-le-street) where HGV's are not allowed in the overtaking lane. It only stretches for a mile up a quite steep hill. Been in place for about 6 months or so, but was piloted before that for a few months.

[Red Devil]

jm doc said:

There's a two lane section of the A1M in Durham heading south of junction 63 (chester-le-street) where HGV's are not allowed in the overtaking lane. It only stretches for a mile up a quite steep hill. Been in place for about 6 months or so, but was piloted before that for a few months.

Just one of several - http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/...

[GTIR]

Not again!
When the human race gets wiped out and eventually aliens come and visit they'll boot up a PC and the last thread will be about trucks holding everybody up!

The fact is we live on a small island with a limited road network and too many cars on the road.

Live with it.

/End thread

[philmots]

Chris Stott said:

Never heard of this but it sounds like a great idea. I have to travel up and down the A1 (from the M18 to Wetherby) every week, and the ignorant T***S sit side by side on the DC sections for miles with a >1mph speed differential and miles of queueing traffic behind them.

If they can't maintain their already limited speed on a gradient then they shouldn't be on the road in the first place.

I'd love you to show me a 2 lane section of the A1 between the M18 and Wetherby!

Also, do you have any idea what it takes to pull 44 tonnes up hill at 56mph? It can be done, maybe in the latest 700hp Volvo... But do you want to pay an extra 10% on everything you buy to fuel/pay for the truck in the first place? Thought not...

[philmots]

Nickyboy said:

Ever been stuck behind a Tesco double decker on the A34? Supermarkets are the worst, they employ agency, buy low power tractors and now run full weight double deckers, oh and limit the trucks to 50mph.

Again, would you want to pay a stack extra on your weekly food bill to pay for the extra fuel/cost of trucks? no....

[philmots]

jm doc said:

There's a two lane section of the A1M in Durham heading south of junction 63 (chester-le-street) where HGV's are not allowed in the overtaking lane. It only stretches for a mile up a quite steep hill. Been in place for about 6 months or so, but was piloted before that for a few months.

I drive this most days... It's a bloody nightmare. Our trucks will pull a full load (of our stuff) at 50 no problem. Problem is, at rush hour you're stuck behind a 15 year old truck at 44 tonnes full of scrap metal that can't climb the hill at more than 25mph. You then have a huge line of trucks doing 25mph, nobody can exit/join the motorway safely as it's in effect a rolling road block. Terrible idea.

As a HGV driver, i'd 100% be in favour of a time restriced pass of say 30 seconds. But this would in some cases need the overtaken drive to co-operate.

[Nigel Worc's]

Oooh, it isn't just me that would like lorries restricted to lane one during the day then lol.

If restricting lorries to lane one would cause all the doom and gloom the lorry drivers on here predict ....... how come it works in Europe then ?

I don't experience elephant racing in those zones ...... which is good, I don't experience any difficulty joining/exiting the roads in those zones .... which is also good.

Lorry drivers get held up by each other ...... that is also good, because maybe it'll make the big gits thinks twice about holding unrestricted traffic up for mile after mile after mile, because doing that is what got them restricted to lane one in the first place ....... and hopefully it'll be copied over here.

OR

Lorry drivers could learn from what's happened in Europe and stop doing it ....... naw, that's not going to happen !

[heebeegeetee]

Nigel Worc's said:

Oooh, it isn't just me that would like lorries restricted to lane one during the day then lol.

If restricting lorries to lane one would cause all the doom and gloom the lorry drivers on here predict ....... how come it works in Europe then ?

I don't experience elephant racing in those zones ...... which is good, I don't experience any difficulty joining/exiting the roads in those zones .... which is also good.

Lorry drivers get held up by each other ...... that is also good, because maybe it'll make the big gits thinks twice about holding unrestricted traffic up for mile after mile after mile, because doing that is what got them restricted to lane one in the first place ....... and hopefully it'll be copied over here.

OR

Lorry drivers could learn from what's happened in Europe and stop doing it ....... naw, that's not going to happen !

You're 100% wrong Nigel and you're missing a massive, massive point.

Banning overtaking won't affect lorry drivers one bit, just like speed limiters didn't. Lorry drivers will still go to work using the tools they have and the laws they have.

The impact will be upon car drivers, just like the impact of speed limiters on hgvs did.

And I do wish you'd stop referring to your trip up the coat of Belgium and Holland as being representative of the continent of Europe.

[C8PPO]

C8PPO said:

We do badly need a law banning trucks from the outside lane, be that lane 2 or lane 3, on any DC. So they have to travel 0.5mph slower - instead of holding up 20 or 30 cars which can legally travel significantly faster?

R0G said:

no we dont

we need a law that prevents one of the drivers doing it for x amount of time

Too subjective, and in any case doesn't prevent the root issue, namely the remainder of the traffic being held up whilst the second truck attempts to pass.

jazzyjeff said:

Surely in this world of LCD the less complicated law (i.e. the one easiest to determine whether or not it's been broken) would be preferable?

Yes - you're in the outside lane, the law has been broken, QED.

roachcoach said:

It could easily be done with existing legislation - minimum speed limits.

Can't see that, since in these instances, the two trucks involved are generally doing 55.4mph and 55.8mph. How would a minimum speed law apply in that case?

[liner33]

There is a recent restriction on the A34 at Gore hill which is between Newbury and Oxford banning vehicles 7.5t and over from overtaking , unfortunately it is widely ignored by 99% of the hgv's. So now they are calling for a blanket 50mph limit

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/2012/old-news-articl...

[daz3210]

Is there not a law relating to 'Inconsiderate Driving' or something similar?

Could this not be applied to this situation?

[10 Pence Short]

heebeegeetee said:

You're 100% wrong Nigel and you're missing a massive, massive point.

Banning overtaking won't affect lorry drivers one bit, just like speed limiters didn't. Lorry drivers will still go to work using the tools they have and the laws they have.

The impact will be upon car drivers, just like the impact of speed limiters on hgvs did.

And I do wish you'd stop referring to your trip up the coat of Belgium and Holland as being representative of the continent of Europe.

I used to live there and agree with him.

Also, if it "won't affect lorry drivers one bit", you have to ask, why are they overtaking in the first place? Relieving boredom? I don't believe relieving boredom is excuse enough to hold up drivers of smaller, faster vehicles for mile after mile.

Trucking is just a basic manual job fulfilling an essential, but ultimately mechanical process. It should be done expediently, but not at the expense of more important journeys with more pressing needs.