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daz3210

Original Poster:

5,000 posts

120 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
Just passed the local 'Cheap Jack' store in the high street.

On display in the window are 'airsoft guns' that are (to a layman) pretty realistic looking.

Did I misread it or did the law not recently change to say these things should be painted a gaudy colour?


MC

39 posts

76 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
daz3210 said:
Just passed the local 'Cheap Jack' store in the high street.

On display in the window are 'airsoft guns' that are (to a layman) pretty realistic looking.

Did I misread it or did the law not recently change to say these things should be painted a gaudy colour?
Correct, unless being sold to someone who is subject to an exemption as per the VCRA.

So it is still legal to sell them without painting, but only to someone who is allowed to have them; though I'd bet that the 'Cheap Jack' store don't worry about stuff like that...

PintOfKittens

1,336 posts

70 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
In violation of VCRA, basically gun has to be 50% a bright colour (or see through). Trading standards might be interested.

daz3210

Original Poster:

5,000 posts

120 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
What would you do then?

They are NOT the expensive enthusiasts type, but the cheap toy type, about fifteen quid.

Bloke sells just about anything from toiletries to toys.

Would it be fairer to mention to him that he shouldn't be selling them?

MC

39 posts

76 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
daz3210 said:
What would you do then?

They are NOT the expensive enthusiasts type, but the cheap toy type, about fifteen quid.

Bloke sells just about anything from toiletries to toys.

Would it be fairer to mention to him that he shouldn't be selling them?
Whether they are cheap or not makes no odds, if they can be mistaken for a real gun is where it becomes a problem.

He would only commit an offence if he sells them to someone without a valid exemption and/or a minor.

Though the penalty for this (in England) is up to 51 weeks in prison and/or up to £5000 fine.
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Dr Doofenshmirtz

7,882 posts

80 months

Big Fluffy One

144 posts

98 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
MC said:
daz3210 said:
What would you do then?

They are NOT the expensive enthusiasts type, but the cheap toy type, about fifteen quid.

Bloke sells just about anything from toiletries to toys.

Would it be fairer to mention to him that he shouldn't be selling them?
Whether they are cheap or not makes no odds, if they can be mistaken for a real gun is where it becomes a problem.

He would only commit an offence if he sells them to someone without a valid exemption and/or a minor.

Though the penalty for this (in England) is up to 51 weeks in prison and/or up to £5000 fine.
It is illegal to manfacture, import or sell realistic imitation firearms.

There is no exemption, only a defence if you are prosecuted.

Just by selling them he is breaking the law.

God bless Hazel Blears.

MC

39 posts

76 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
Big Fluffy One said:
It is illegal to manfacture, import or sell realistic imitation firearms.

There is no exemption, only a defence if you are prosecuted.

Just by selling them he is breaking the law.

God bless Hazel Blears.
I stand corrected; I did used to enjoy Airsofting occasionally, until it all became too difficult as going occasionally isn't good enough!

IT1GTR

465 posts

35 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
Big Fluffy One said:
MC said:
daz3210 said:
What would you do then?

They are NOT the expensive enthusiasts type, but the cheap toy type, about fifteen quid.

Bloke sells just about anything from toiletries to toys.

Would it be fairer to mention to him that he shouldn't be selling them?
Whether they are cheap or not makes no odds, if they can be mistaken for a real gun is where it becomes a problem.

He would only commit an offence if he sells them to someone without a valid exemption and/or a minor.

Though the penalty for this (in England) is up to 51 weeks in prison and/or up to £5000 fine.
It is illegal to manfacture, import or sell realistic imitation firearms.

There is no exemption, only a defence if you are prosecuted.

Just by selling them he is breaking the law.

God bless Hazel Blears.
Airsofters have a exemption if they are UKARA registered do they not?



mattmoxon

3,253 posts

98 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
IT1GTR said:
Airsofters have a exemption if they are UKARA registered do they not?
As do historic battle re-enactors but you have to be a member of a club or re-enactment society. Most stipulate to be a member you have to visit regularly (or so I have been told - there may be exceptions).

The VCR bill (with regard to imitation fire arms) stinks imho as do the air rifle laws (they are a monumental pain with regards muzzle energy limits).

Finlandia

4,997 posts

111 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
Big Fluffy One said:
MC said:
daz3210 said:
What would you do then?

They are NOT the expensive enthusiasts type, but the cheap toy type, about fifteen quid.

Bloke sells just about anything from toiletries to toys.

Would it be fairer to mention to him that he shouldn't be selling them?
Whether they are cheap or not makes no odds, if they can be mistaken for a real gun is where it becomes a problem.

He would only commit an offence if he sells them to someone without a valid exemption and/or a minor.

Though the penalty for this (in England) is up to 51 weeks in prison and/or up to £5000 fine.
It is illegal to manfacture, import or sell realistic imitation firearms.

There is no exemption, only a defence if you are prosecuted.

Just by selling them he is breaking the law.

God bless Hazel Blears.
What if you have a real gun and paint it neon orange, does that make an UZI legal? wink

Hooli

26,565 posts

80 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
Finlandia said:
What if you have a real gun and paint it neon orange, does that make an UZI legal? wink
Makes sense to me. We all know day-glo is for safety so a brightly painted gun can't be dangerous can it? hehe

IT1GTR

465 posts

35 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
mattmoxon said:
IT1GTR said:
Airsofters have a exemption if they are UKARA registered do they not?
As do historic battle re-enactors but you have to be a member of a club or re-enactment society. Most stipulate to be a member you have to visit regularly (or so I have been told - there may be exceptions).

The VCR bill (with regard to imitation fire arms) stinks imho as do the air rifle laws (they are a monumental pain with regards muzzle energy limits).
I think to be UKARA at my site, you simply need to go more than 3 times over more than 2 months. That being said, I can see the reason for the Law. If I were stupid enough to point my G36 in the direction of an armed police officer or anyone else, I would expect to get shot as the differences between the real thing and the air-soft version are tiny.

mattmoxon

3,253 posts

98 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
IT1GTR said:
I think to be UKARA at my site, you simply need to go more than 3 times over more than 2 months. That being said, I can see the reason for the Law. If I were stupid enough to point my G36 in the direction of an armed police officer or anyone else, I would expect to get shot as the differences between the real thing and the air-soft version are tiny.
I think it has more to do with the fact that scrotes were using them to threaten people because like you said they look very similar to the real thing. I would fully expect anybody cretinous enough to use them in that manner to be shot and quite rightly so imho.

It is more from the point of view of somebody that wants to plink or paper punch with one in the back garden but also wants something that looks nice in a (locked) display cabinet, you'd have to go to the extra expense of buying a 'proper' air pistol.

TheAlfaMale

513 posts

28 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
Iirc some filthy chavs robbed a convenience store with an airsoft AK47 or 2, prompting calls for the RIF's to be restricted. Some other well publicised incidents in the following few months didn't help.

Legal info re:- air soft guns can be found here: http://www.wolfarmouries.co.uk/airsoft/bb/gun.asp?...

I was a keen airsofter until the VCRB meant that my local sites shut down or had smaller games due to diminished numbers. The cost was also very prohibitive and having a new family meant I could no longer justify going.

Edited by TheAlfaMale on Friday 2nd March 21:55

Nickyboy

3,707 posts

114 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
You might want to check what they are first, at £15 its not going to be a proper airsoft gun. A proper airsoft gun will set you back hundreds. My local fishing shop has similar guns in the window as well as 2 AK47's and he hasnt been closed down yet.

DIW35

3,288 posts

80 months

[news] 
Saturday 3rd March 2012 quote quote all
The really daft thing is, it's actually easier to legally acquire a shotgun. Kind of ironic really.

catso

10,824 posts

147 months

[news] 
Saturday 3rd March 2012 quote quote all
DIW35 said:
The really daft thing is, it's actually easier to legally acquire a shotgun. Kind of ironic really.
And likely even easier to illegally acquire a firearm...

iphonedyou

3,702 posts

37 months

[news] 
Saturday 3rd March 2012 quote quote all
As said, no need to paint orange if you go to your local airsoft club 3 times in 2 months as a member.

Not a lot of point shopping your local trader in unless you can prove he's selling to people who dont hold that status. You'd only look more silly.

Big Fluffy One

144 posts

98 months

[news] 
Saturday 3rd March 2012 quote quote all
I was quite involved with the discussions whilst the VCR Bill was on its way through Parliament.

Owning an airsoft gun, or indeed any other sort of rif or deac is not in itself an offence.

The offence itself lies in the importation, sale or manufacture of a rif.

Not being able to buy new guns would eventually strangle airsoft, so players of the time became very vocal and their MPs sufffered. However the Government of the day, specifically Hazel Blears, would not entertain the idea of an exemption in the legislation. What they did do was to word the legislation in such a way that it left the door open for a defence if you could prove that you could not know that the rif was going to be used for a nefarious purpose.

The only realistic way this could happen was if airsofters set up a players association, then retailers could use the defence that they only sold to genuine airsoft players.

As far as I am aware this defence has never been tested in court...I stand to be corrected on that.

However, the chance of actually being pulled up on it by a normal everday BiB is remote...they probably wouldn't even be aware of the legislation unless they had previously dealt with a case involving rifs. That's why pound shops and market traders still get away with selling them.

My knowledge is a little historic, so if anyone knows if the original legislation has since been changed then I'm all ears.
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