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simoid
8,286 posts
27 months
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Swervin_Mervin said: LoonR1 said: marshalla said: But is that the "straight on" to exit 1, exit 2, exit 3 or exit 4 ? I think all have been defined as "straight on" at some point in this thread. As in the exit at 12 o'clock, the second exit. That is straight on. You mean the one that actually isn't straight on if you actually look at the junction both aerially and on the ground? There's about the same angle between the northbound approach and the 1st exit as there is between the northbound approach and the 2nd exit  What, the 2nd exit at 1 o'clock, and definitely not the 1st exit at 11 o'clock?
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Swervin_Mervin
643 posts
107 months
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simoid said: Swervin_Mervin said: LoonR1 said: marshalla said: But is that the "straight on" to exit 1, exit 2, exit 3 or exit 4 ? I think all have been defined as "straight on" at some point in this thread. As in the exit at 12 o'clock, the second exit. That is straight on. You mean the one that actually isn't straight on if you actually look at the junction both aerially and on the ground? There's about the same angle between the northbound approach and the 1st exit as there is between the northbound approach and the 2nd exit What, the 2nd exit at 1 o'clock, and definitely not the 1st exit at 11 o'clock? 
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LoonR1
12,431 posts
46 months
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Swervin_Mervin said: LoonR1 said: marshalla said: But is that the "straight on" to exit 1, exit 2, exit 3 or exit 4 ? I think all have been defined as "straight on" at some point in this thread. As in the exit at 12 o'clock, the second exit. That is straight on. You mean the one that actually isn't straight on if you actually look at the junction both aerially and on the ground? There's about the same angle between the northbound approach and the 1st exit as there is between the northbound approach and the 2nd exit Yes the one at 12 o'clock, not difficult to see is it.  Anyway, you lot keep telling the waves to go back and I'll leave you to it. Over and out.
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Swervin_Mervin
643 posts
107 months
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Nice drawing. Very creative. So who drives on a section of highway there on the alignment you've got for 6-12?
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simoid
8,286 posts
27 months
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Swervin_Mervin said: Nice drawing. Very creative. So who drives on a section of highway there on the alignment you've got for 6-12?  Apologies, I've lost some skill on the ol' MS paint! Turn Right for Tesco! (sounds a bit slogan-ish )
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LoonR1
12,431 posts
46 months
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Swervin_Mervin said: Nice drawing. Very creative. So who drives on a section of highway there on the alignment you've got for 6-12? QED
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Starfighter
1,146 posts
47 months
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saaby93 said: See 2 pages back >>> Hugo a Gogo said: Add A323( A325) at top left, Tesco top right, A323 bottom right if The OP and learner come in from the bottom left and exit top left That sketch map is way out. The approach and first exist are nowhere close to being a straight line. Yes - The arrows on the approach are missing the left option but that is the only mitigation that can be offered. The sign is a close match to the actual road layoout. In my view the OP made 3 key mistakes - Failed to identify the additional risks associated with following / passing a learner in terms of his overall positioning and following distances.
- Approached in the right lane to turn left at a roundabout.Basic Highway Code stuff.
- Went for the actual overtake on the junction rather than hanging back and waiting for the lead vehicle to fully commit to exit 1 or continue in circuit.
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simoid
8,286 posts
27 months
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Thank goodness you pointed that out... I'd been wondering for weeks and pages what the other side of the debate was!
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Hugo a Gogo
15,131 posts
102 months
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Starfighter said: saaby93 said: See 2 pages back >>> Hugo a Gogo said: Add A323( A325) at top left, Tesco top right, A323 bottom right if The OP and learner come in from the bottom left and exit top left That sketch map is way out. The approach and first exist are nowhere close to being a straight line. Yes - The arrows on the approach are missing the left option but that is the only mitigation that can be offered. The sign is a close match to the actual road layoout. In my view the OP made 3 key mistakes - Failed to identify the additional risks associated with following / passing a learner in terms of his overall positioning and following distances.
- Approached in the right lane to turn left at a roundabout.Basic Highway Code stuff.
- Went for the actual overtake on the junction rather than hanging back and waiting for the lead vehicle to fully commit to exit 1 or continue in circuit.
that sketch map is mine, and was to show how the sign would/could have been arranged IF they had intended the 'left means straight on and vice-versa' layout
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Starfighter
1,146 posts
47 months
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simoid said: Thank goodness you pointed that out... I'd been wondering for weeks and pages what the other side of the debate was! Welcome! My point is that the OP's errors are not directly linked to the mis-match between the physical road, road markings or signage. He simply should not have gone where he did.
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Starfighter
1,146 posts
47 months
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Hugo a Gogo said: that sketch map is mine, and was to show how the sign would/could have been arranged IF they had intended the 'left means straight on and vice-versa' layout For me that doesn't provide a solution, there is still a mismatch between the physical road and angles of the exists and the markings on the road surface. To have 2 lane approach to 2 lane exist on exit l woould require more than just the change to the non-primary route marker as you showed, there would need to be more paint on the road and an additional sign with approach lanes defined. I would sugget that there is not the room between the 2 roundabout for that amount of signage. As I have said, the root cause of the collision is the vehicle positioning by the OP. The road signs / markings could do with a tidy up but are a secondary issue.
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Snowboy
3,176 posts
20 months
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Was the left lane marked as left turn?
If so then I’m tempted to side with the OP and say that there was a reasonable expectation that he was going left.
There is a roundabout near me where the entry is a dual carriageway which splits to 3 and the left lane is marked as left only, and the first exit is a dual carriageway.
Many cars in the middle lane turn left too into the 2nd lane of the exit.
Occasionally a car does not turn left from the left lane and causes chaos/crash and it is always their fault.
It also struck me as odd that the learner hit the OP on the rear quarter rather than the front. I’m not sure why the learner wouldn’t have avoided the accident.
Of course, that can be answered that learner drivers sometimes do unexpected stuff.
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Hugo a Gogo
15,131 posts
102 months
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Snowboy said: Was the left lane marked as left turn? read the thread first, that's the whole gist of it
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Snowboy
3,176 posts
20 months
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Hugo a Gogo said: Snowboy said: Was the left lane marked as left turn? read the thread first, that's the whole gist of it Sorry, good point. I'd read a lot of it a while back..I'll read some more. Is the single arrow on the road the only marking? On the google maps image I can’t see what arrows is on the second lane as theirs a car there. Can anyone tell me what it is?
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motco
4,745 posts
115 months
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Snowboy
3,176 posts
20 months
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Don’t worry.
I’ve read more and investigated more and I’ve come to the conclusion I don’t care.
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Caractacus
2,408 posts
94 months
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After a quick view of the footage...Sorry OP, but imho you're at fault.
What's more is that the other driver signalled his intentions prior to the roundabout, but not whist on the roundabout (hence he wasn't turning left)...
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bicycleshorts
1,557 posts
30 months
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Caractacus said: After a quick view of the footage...Sorry OP, but imho you're at fault.
What's more is that the other driver signalled his intentions prior to the roundabout, but not whist on the roundabout (hence he wasn't turning left)... There is no left. 
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Snowboy
3,176 posts
20 months
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There wasn’t a left – fair enough. There was a first exit though – and from the maps I’d call it a left exit. I do find it odd that the arrow in the road didn’t have a ‘straight on and left’ marking though as I’ve always considered anything less than straight over to be considered as left. In the case of a that roundabout I’d say that there was a left, right and straight over exists. Some people might argue against that, but in that case I guess the argument could be that there were two straight over exits and the arrow meant that lane was suitable for either of them. Furthermore . .. .actually, I still don't care. 
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Caractacus
2,408 posts
94 months
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Snowboy said: There wasn’t a left – fair enough. There was a first exit though – and from the maps I’d call it a left exit. Furthermore . .. .actually, I still don't care. 
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