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simoid

12,525 posts

41 months

[news] 
Thursday 26th April 2012 quote quote all
pitmansboots said:
simoid said:
pitmansboots said:
....and yes, I would like my spare parts delivered at full speed please.
But it has to be in the public interest to exceed the limit...


smile
All members of the public have the chance of needing an organ delivered pronto. It may well be in the public interest to legislate for that to be allowed to happen. A present it can if you use a police driver or perhaps an ambulance driver but not a 'private'ambulance'. Maybe that should be changed.
Whooosh!

(Not the sound of a speeding 'private ambulance')

CBR JGWRR

6,260 posts

32 months

[news] 
Thursday 26th April 2012 quote quote all
pitmansboots said:
CBR JGWRR said:
What about if you are a professional road racer?

smile
There are times when the employers of such people will pay to have the road closed when they can then ply their trade in a relatively safe manner.
Quite frankly, I wouldn't like to share the road with professional road racers in normal traffic, would you, really?
Well, you aren't going to be sharing the road for long...

Most of them are sensible.

Mad Jock

Original Poster:

899 posts

145 months

[news] 
Thursday 26th April 2012 quote quote all
I think that some of you need to read the article more closely.

Quote:"Mr Thomson was asked by the transplant surgeon to use the marked ambulance's blue lights and sirens to get the liver to Leeds as quickly as possible"

He was not speeding on a whim or for the jollies. I would also argue that 84 mph is not excessive, considering the speeds that your average repmobile can be seen doing on most motorways.

It was also early in his journey. Make up time first, to allow for any unknown hold ups further down the road.

While I have no way of knowing, I would assume that he has had some kind of emergency driving training, probably as an ex-ambulance driver.

Most of us have seen the famous video of the Traffic Cops delivering a liver from Cambridge to a private hospital in the centre of London. Speeds in excess of 120 mph were used, on a motorway far busier than the section of the A1 that goes past Gladsmuir. It took them something like 27 minutes if I recall.

I appreciate that blues and twos are not a licence to speed, but why fit them at all? Private ambulance? Might as well have paid a mini cab in that case.

As for the gormless idiot (that's you, Surveyor) who thinks that this will teach us "mad jocks" a lesson, grow up. The driver was English, and he was delivering for an English patient.

surveyor

7,207 posts

67 months

[news] 
Thursday 26th April 2012 quote quote all
Mad Jock said:
I think that some of you need to read the article more closely.

Quote:"Mr Thomson was asked by the transplant surgeon to use the marked ambulance's blue lights and sirens to get the liver to Leeds as quickly as possible"

He was not speeding on a whim or for the jollies. I would also argue that 84 mph is not excessive, considering the speeds that your average repmobile can be seen doing on most motorways.

It was also early in his journey. Make up time first, to allow for any unknown hold ups further down the road.

While I have no way of knowing, I would assume that he has had some kind of emergency driving training, probably as an ex-ambulance driver.

Most of us have seen the famous video of the Traffic Cops delivering a liver from Cambridge to a private hospital in the centre of London. Speeds in excess of 120 mph were used, on a motorway far busier than the section of the A1 that goes past Gladsmuir. It took them something like 27 minutes if I recall.

I appreciate that blues and twos are not a licence to speed, but why fit them at all? Private ambulance? Might as well have paid a mini cab in that case.

As for the gormless idiot (that's you, Surveyor) who thinks that this will teach us "mad jocks" a lesson, grow up. The driver was English, and he was delivering for an English patient.
I like being Gormless, it's fun. I stand by my experience (note not opinion!) that Scottish people do observe the letter of the law far more exactly than the English, be it a good thing or not and are not afraid to let his be known.

On the face of it though, the Prosecutor Fiscal deserves a slap with an old trout for pursuing this.

mph1977

7,069 posts

51 months

[news] 
Thursday 26th April 2012 quote quote all
apologies for the copypasta of my post from the other thread aobut this

a replay of Mick Ferguson ( and WYMAS private services) vs Lincolnshire BiB then

while vehicles carrying tissue and blood can be fitted with blue beacons / special warning devices and audible warning devices, they DO NOT have the same exemptions as an Ambulance or as a RRV or support tender ( 'a vehicle used for ambulance purposes' ) has.

this is yet another example of the absolute farce that is UK law regarding emergency vehicles

exemptions etc are covered in the Road Traffic Act and the Road Traffic Regulation Act

fitting and use of warning devices in the road vehicle lighting regulations

there is no enforcable legal provisions regarding training as S.19 Road Safety Act only allows for secondary legislation to be made to cover the training required to claim the speed exemptions open to police, fire +rescue and Ambulance vehicles , arguably claiming the speed exemption is the least hazardous 'moving' exemption vs. treating red traffic lights as give ways or off siding 'keep left' bollards ... ( the parking / stopping exemptions etc are fairly none descript in terms of risk and)

doctor's green beacons have no exemptions etc attached again another area where there is a bit of a legal farce ... A doctor of my acquaintance is an Emergency Medicine Consultant as well as a BASICS Doctor ... if his department were to call him in in anticipation / on arrival of a critically injured patient the law requires him to make his way in at normal road speeds , obeying all road traffic law , he may if he wishes display a green beacon , it the is doctor was instead called to scene as part of the BASICS scheme by the Ambulance Service - possibly for the same patient he can claim all the exemptions offered to 'a vehicle used for ambulance purposes' and use blues and twos ...

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mollymoo

129 posts

29 months

[news] 
Thursday 26th April 2012 quote quote all
Do transplant drivers receive the same training as police, fire and ambulance drivers? Are their vehicles subject to the same requirements and checks? If they don't then I don't think they should be driving like they're a Police class 1 driver in an Evo. I'd argue that they do an important, time-critical job and should get an exemption, but they shouldn't get the exemption without the training and equipment.

Not that you need much training to do 84 in a 70 if conditions are good, no more than a basic license in fact, but in principle I think exemptions should go hand in hand with appropriate training and equipment.

mph1977

7,069 posts

51 months

[news] 
Thursday 26th April 2012 quote quote all
mollymoo said:
Do transplant drivers receive the same training as police, fire and ambulance drivers? Are their vehicles subject to the same requirements and checks? If they don't then I don't think they should be driving like they're a Police class 1 driver in an Evo. I'd argue that they do an important, time-critical job and should get an exemption, but they shouldn't get the exemption without the training and equipment.

Not that you need much training to do 84 in a 70 if conditions are good, no more than a basic license in fact, but in principle I think exemptions should go hand in hand with appropriate training and equipment.
given that the vast majority , if not all this kind of work is done by NHS Transport For Transplants contract holders contracted by NHS Blood and Transplant agency , and if they are an Ambulance service they will be subject to CQC regulation ( and Ambulance organisations do get inspected by the CQC) I suspect that the standards are no better or no worse than the industry norms - remembering there is no specific training mandated by law, only inferences drawn from HASAW and PUWER ( as S19 RSA is toothless and didn't specify any training requirement only that they could be made ) .

the issue is that if you had a patient in the back or were responding to a patient as part of a properly structured ambulance organisation you can claim the exemption, but tissue for transplant doesn't enjoy the same exemptions and it;s something which the Police no longer involve themselves with except when vehicles get flashed ...

carinaman

7,672 posts

55 months

[news] 
Thursday 26th April 2012 quote quote all
They should have used Andy Sparrow's Bloodrunners.

wink

ninja-lewis

2,226 posts

73 months

[news] 
Friday 27th April 2012 quote quote all
Mad Jock said:
I think that some of you need to read the article more closely.

Quote:"Mr Thomson was asked by the transplant surgeon to use the marked ambulance's blue lights and sirens to get the liver to Leeds as quickly as possible"

He was not speeding on a whim or for the jollies. I would also argue that 84 mph is not excessive, considering the speeds that your average repmobile can be seen doing on most motorways.

I appreciate that blues and twos are not a licence to speed, but why fit them at all? Private ambulance? Might as well have paid a mini cab in that case.
How do you know he was't speeding on a whim? That quote states he was merely asked to use the blue light exemptions (which include treating red lights as Give Way) available to him for moving human organs. It does not say he was asked to break the speed limit (which he legally did not have an exemption for).

Incidentally, a liver usually survives for 12-16 hours outside the body. Transplant operations tend not to be done at the last minute. In this case, there seems to be conflicting reports: quotes imply that he got there "just in time" whereas other reports state the operation was carried out "later that day". If he averaged 84mph all the way, he'd save about half an hour - was it really that critical?

car crazy

1,796 posts

46 months

[news] 
Friday 27th April 2012 quote quote all
10 Pence Short said:
tex200 said:
He was also not taking the fastest route. Cross country to M74/M6 would have allowed him to drive flat out and be there a lot quicker than trying to speed down the A1.
In a driven car scenario, by far the fastest route from Edinburgh to Leeds is down the A1.

As for the organ delivery, unless it's an emergency, and the driver is using a genuine exemption, I don't see why he should be able to escape prosecution?
As somebody who does this route on a weekly basis in a truck and have also done it in a car the quickest route from Edinburgh to Leeds is A 702 through biggar to Abington A74m m6 to Penrith A66 to scotch corner A1 Leeds any other route and I would be fined the difference in fuel costs and rightly so. Taking the A1 out of Edinburgh you head east for far too long and its not even a good road.

voyds9

4,881 posts

166 months

[news] 
Friday 27th April 2012 quote quote all
Jasandjules said:
As I have said before, EVERYONE who thinks that ambulances and police and fire engines should not break the speed limit should go on a list. When those people make the 999 call, the response unit is instructed to obey all speed limits and traffic lights.
Even those picking up the takeaway.
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