Do police officers have to give you their badge number?
Discussion
PintOfKittens said:
Did your warrant card number change at all?
Does your driving licence (edit for pendancy avoidance) Driver number change when you move homes?A warrant card/number is issued once...when you join the force...it doesn't get 'renewed' changed or anything else...it is with you from day one to day last of your police service.
Edited by oldsoak on Wednesday 2nd May 10:50
It’s a bit of a tangent.
But ones prisoner number is the same.
You get issued the next number in the national list when you go to jail and you keep that number for life.
You can tell how long someone’s been in jail, or whether they are a repeat offender coming back to jail by their number.
oldsoak said:
PintOfKittens said:
Did your warrant card number change at all?
Does your driving licence (edit for pendancy avoidance) Driver number change when you move homes?A warrant card/number is issued once...when you join the force...it doesn't get 'renewed' changed or anything else...it is with you from day one to day last of your police service.
Edited by oldsoak on Wednesday 2nd May 10:50
PintOfKittens said:
Derek Smith said:
Interesting stuff
Did your warrant card number change at all?The warrant number is really nothing more than an employee reference number specific to that person. In one force I was in it was called a pay number.
I was seconded to the Home Office for a couple of years and I was told that I had no warrant number whilst I was there. Indeed, the theory was that I could not exercise the power of constable whilst I was seconded. I tested this a couple of times. Once, on a night out in London I nicked a chap for criminal damage to three shop windows. When a Met officer turned up I explained my situation and he said he'd put me down as male anon if the chap was willing to cooperate and make a full and frank, which he did.
Another time there was a dispute on a bus and I intervened and calmed the situation down so that a fight ensued. I arrested the chap, called the locals - Kent - who were much less cooperative and said they would put a full report in as I'd identified myself as a police officer. The bus driver, who'd been assaulted - I didn't want the assult on me reported - heard the b
king I got and intervened himself on my side. Quid pro quo sort of thing. I got a phone call from a sergeant later who apologised for the conduct of his officers and thanked me. I assumed the driver had said something. The passengers were very pro. Half a dozen or so shook hands with me as the Kent PC was having a go at me.
A warrant card, together with the ref number, is an important badge as such. I have to say I missed it. Just after I retired I went to step into an argument that looked as if it was going to get out of hand and had to be reminded by my wife that I was a civvy. The law has changed rencently as to powers of the public so you have to be careful.
Snowboy said:
It’s a bit of a tangent.
But ones prisoner number is the same.
You get issued the next number in the national list when you go to jail and you keep that number for life.
You can tell how long someone’s been in jail, or whether they are a repeat offender coming back to jail by their number.
VT4352. But ones prisoner number is the same.
You get issued the next number in the national list when you go to jail and you keep that number for life.
You can tell how long someone’s been in jail, or whether they are a repeat offender coming back to jail by their number.
10 Pence Short said:
Snowboy said:
It’s a bit of a tangent.
But ones prisoner number is the same.
You get issued the next number in the national list when you go to jail and you keep that number for life.
You can tell how long someone’s been in jail, or whether they are a repeat offender coming back to jail by their number.
VT4352. But ones prisoner number is the same.
You get issued the next number in the national list when you go to jail and you keep that number for life.
You can tell how long someone’s been in jail, or whether they are a repeat offender coming back to jail by their number.
Snowboy said:
I think it’s fair to say that they are sometimes legitimate reasons for police to be anonymous to the public.
And many times when it's not. If they have nothing to hide then they have nothing to fear; it's the excuse they give to us so it's only fair that it also applies to them equally.RH
Nightmare said:
Derek Smith said:
I once went into a casino for a licensing visit with three other police officers, all of us in plain clothes. There was a Smith, a Green, a Jones and a Brown......
really? superb! not really a surprise you weren't let in, slightly suspicious to say the leastWe got to this casinso. I won't name it but it was in the Wirral. The casino, as most would do, put a really attractive female on the reception desk. She was about 18 and didn't really know what she was supposed to do if there was a problem. Green, the super, was quite officious in his manner. He would demand entry rather than ask. He showed his warrant card and demanded entry for a supervisory visit. We had to be let in immediately. She, however, had other ideas.
She demanded that we sign in. Green refused to sign in and said that he wanted to see the manager but that we should sign in. So there was Green, Brown, Jones and me. The girl pressed the emergency button and three heavies suddenly appeared, one of whom bumped into me a couple of times. The manager appeared, recognised Green and was at once apologetic. The girl was a bit upset that she was being blamed for something she hadn't done and this was apparent in her manner. The manager called the girl over and she appeared from behind the counter to show us legs that were very nice and clothed in black stockings that had the then fashionable random lines across them. After she walked past I turned to the heavy, who had taken a step back, and said, 'That's the worst case of varicose veins I've seen on a girl that age.' Not a glimmer.
The manger reappeared with the girl, the latter going behind the desk, and the former appologising to each of us individually. I was going to mention being bumped into but didn't want to amke a fuss. This did not go for the girl.
To give her her due, she had a bit of bottle and just as the three of us were turning away she demanded to see our warrant cards. The manager having by now left it seemed churlish to refuse. So three different warrant cards, all different to the one she had seen earlier. The silly girl pressed the button again and the heavies appeared. I wasn't going to be pushed and showed my warrant card to the bloke and said that if he touched me or obstructed me I'd shut the place down for the rest of the night.
Manager appeared, closely followed by Green, closely followed by tears from the girl.
We then went into the club. A waitress came up to us and asked if we would like something to eat. As we'd just eaten I was about to refuse but Green picked this up and nodded. I assumed he wanted to forgive and forget. So I asked for a sandwich. Beef I said. Where I came from this wold have been two slices of cut bread, two thin slices of beef and a bit of garnish.
I got steak, rump, with four large slices of bread, a side salad and chips.
It was delicious.
It was a fascinating course, We spent one night in bingo halls and the next in casinos. Bingo, the best odds you can get, was very cut-throat. We saw women pushing others out of the way to get to the fruit machines during the break. One women was knocked to the floor. I was going to help her but her language!
I discovered that there was a way of getting evens in a casino.
When I was running a shift the lads dealing with a serious assault outside a casino in Brighton were not getting the full cooperation of the staff. They called me. I demanded to see the manager in the same tone of voice that Green used. The chap almost ran to get him. He turned up after some time but rather too cocky for my liking. He started to speak to me and I held up my hand. 'This is not a social call. I want to see your cheque books.'
That got him. He flustered a bit and I said that unless they were forthcoming immediately there would be a report submitted that he was uncooperative. I found an 'error', two cheques either side of midnight from the same signatory. I pointed it out. He excused himself and then his staff began to be more helpful.
I got a real kick out of that. I reported him for his attitude and the cheque offence for which he received a caution.
I enjoy craps - dice if the swear filter is too officious. It is fun and you actually take part. Further you have to think. The odds are quite straightforward and it is easy enough to calculate. Played sensibly it is the best odds you can get if the dice run kindly. I always lose though.
If you look at your time in the casino as a night out and take, say, £50 to lose then you can get a cheap meal, eaten with a floorshow of your fellow gamblers. Any untoward conduct is stopped. The staff are normally good looking and very polite. If you are new they are helpful. It is a fun evening.
Edited by Derek Smith on Thursday 3rd May 20:54
Derek Smith said:
If you look at your time in the casino as a night out and take, say, £50 to lose then you can get a cheap meal, eaten with a floorshow of your fellow gamblers. Any untoward conduct is stopped. The staff are normally good looking and very polite. If you are new they are helpful. It is a fun evening.
I couldn't agree more. It always amazes me, though, how many folks feel that they MUST win; they almost invariably have a bad night out.An ex of mine was a member at three casinos. Her logic was that getting a taxi at nightclub throwing-out time was difficult but the casino provided a safe & pleasant place to spend some time until they were more plentiful.
RH
Rovinghawk said:
I couldn't agree more. It always amazes me, though, how many folks feel that they MUST win; they almost invariably have a bad night out.
An ex of mine was a member at three casinos. Her logic was that getting a taxi at nightclub throwing-out time was difficult but the casino provided a safe & pleasant place to spend some time until they were more plentiful.
RH
I asked one of the croupier, who had no one on his table, what proportion of a punter's (I soon picked up the jargon) drop (see previous bit in parenthesis) they would take. The chap, who realised he could have a bit of fun at a police offier's expense, said: You don't gamble do you. I said no and said that was why I asked.An ex of mine was a member at three casinos. Her logic was that getting a taxi at nightclub throwing-out time was difficult but the casino provided a safe & pleasant place to spend some time until they were more plentiful.
RH
He said; 'If someone comes in with £50 then it is all ours. It is our charge for a good night.'
After a bit of conversation I said: 'But sometimes they must go out with some of the drop.'
'Occasionally.'
'But that's a win isn't it.'
'It's a loan. He'll be back'
I said: 'But it's still a win.'
He asked: 'If he comes in with £50 and comes out with £30, how much has he won?'
I'm good at maths. 'Nothing. He's lost £20.'
He laughed. 'He'll tell his mates he's won £30. They all do.'
'OK, but he's still gone out with some of the drop.'
He said: 'For a while. He'll come back, sign in two mates, both of whom will have £50, and he'll have his £30 plus his weekly £50. It's a high interest loan. £30 will bring in the premium plus another £100. We'd have had his £50 in any case.'
The manager of the Wirral Sporting Club came up to me and described the different punter types. She was realy observant. She said she could 'type' them as they came through the door. I asked her my type and she said I was a waste of space. I said that she'd obviously been talking to my inspector. She laughed and said that she was talking about me as a gambler. She said I'd watch every penny and make the drop last all evening.
She was right.
If you like people watching then a casino is the place. I was told that a big win frightens punters. The norm was that they would then increase their bets as if they wanted to lose it all in the same evening. And the number of times I've seen this is remarkable.
But they are happy as they have a story to tell.
wildcat45 said:
What are the ID letters and numbers you see on riot piolice crash helmets used for?
Is it a command and contol thing to other pilice can see what section they are from, or is it so a MOP/rioter can clearly ID the officer in the event of a complaint?
It is generally for command and control. Different forces seem to put different things on their helmets, but I've never seen a helmet without the two letter Force code on the rear. Where I work we also have a letter for the division the officer comes from (less relevant now as we have merged some so units made with mixed divisions is more likely) and warrant number across the front for the public to see and identify the officer if necessary.Is it a command and contol thing to other pilice can see what section they are from, or is it so a MOP/rioter can clearly ID the officer in the event of a complaint?
In terms of command and control, the most important bits are generally the coloured vests that specific officers wear. There is a national structure for public order policing. Officers are made up into a 'serial' (6 PCs) with a Sergeant. There is normally a 7th PC who is the van driver for the serial. Three serials make a 'PSU' - Police Support Unit - headed up by an Inspector who rides with one of the vans. Specialist units like Evidence Gathering Teams (EGTs) and Medics get attached to a PSU, often following in a car or other vans. Others remain independent. With a PSU each serial Sergeant wears a coloured vest that has in bold letters their PSU and serial designators. The Inspector has one that has just the PSU designator.
e.g. a Sergeant might have AB1A on his vest - AB would be the Force code, 1 the PSU and A indicating the first of three serials. The other two serials would be AB1B and AB1C. The PSU would be called AB1 which is what the Inspector would wear. Another PSU would be AB2 with serials AB2A, AB2B and AB2C
Specialist units also wear coloured vests for their role - e.g. an EGT might have 'EG1' on a vest, 'EG2', etc... Some Forces seem to give all the Officers in every serial vests to identify their unit to the commanders.
Commands are issued to PSUs as a whole. Sometimes a serial might be sent to perform a task. For public order policing, generally a serial won't be split up - they operate as a unit.
If you're really interested this is all in the ACPO Manual of Guidance on Keeping the Peace (PDF, 150pgs)
A PSU convoy is an impressive thing to see. Given each PSU has three riot vans and maybe a couple of cars, if you have multiple PSUs driving on blues to a large event (like mutual aid to London for the riots) it is a big blue light show. PSU driving is also very intense as they drive virtually nose to tail to stop anyone nudging in and breaking up the convoy, so there is lots of pressure on the lead driver for smooth and planned driving. If it gets that big we generally have motorcycle outriders helping keep it smooth.
Derek Smith said:
If you like people watching then a casino is the place.
A few years ago the better half and I stayed at the Ballagio in Vegas for a couple of days at the start of a long holiday in the States. This was where the professional poker players apparently congregated. We stood at the side of one of the poker rooms for ages watching the players and talking with one of the staff about what was going on. Absolutely fascinating.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff