|
chili1
Original Poster
240 posts
106 months
|
Morning, Long story short, paid for parking at local train station, ticket blew off windscreen, I received a parking contrevention notice. Emailed them to say I'd paid, can provide copy of bank statement. They've replied with: 01 May 2012 Dear Mr Re: CP17042874 issued at Newport Station SP, 124001 on 04 April 2012 to vehicle with registration mark ******* Thank you for your recent correspondence regarding the above notice number. The above Parking Contravention Charge Notice was issued to your vehicle as the Parking Attendant has recorded that the vehicle was parked in a pay and display bay without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket. However, I would be able to reconsider your appeal if you can provide further evidence. Please therefore provide me with a photocopy of the valid pay and display ticket, purchased to cover the time parked. Please send the requested evidence to National Car Parks Ltd, Notice Processing, PO Box 839, Northampton, NN4 4AL within 14 days from 1 May 2012. Alternatively, if you are unable to provide the evidence requested I would advise that you make payment of £35. Payment can be made: Online, by visiting https://www.ncp.co.uk/pcn or by cheque / postal order, made payable to National Car Parks Ltd, posted to the address above. Or by phone using your Debit or Credit card on 0845 452 7780 - have your card details and the information held in this email to hand. If neither evidence nor payment is received within 14 days from 1 May 2012, the discount offer will expire and the full amount of £60.00 will become due. I have to inform you that if the outstanding amount remains unpaid we will follow a recovery process which includes passing the case over to a debt collector who will seek to recover the outstanding debt on our behalf and any reasonable administration costs incurred by the debt collector. We further reserve the right to use the courts to recover any outstanding parking charges due to us. Yours sincerely, Miss F Lennard Processing Team National Car Parks I'm not sure if I've still got my ticket. So, safe to ignore if I can't find it? I assume they can only chase RK and I've no legal obligation to provide drivers name? Cheers.
|
|
|
PintOfKittens
1,336 posts
59 months
|
Ignore, File in Bin, ignore all letters that will say you will GOTO JAIL AND BE BANKRUPT AND WE WILL SELL YOUR SOUL TO THE LOWEST BIDDER.
|
|
|
daz3210
5,000 posts
109 months
|
They can of course take you to court if they wish.
Then you will be at will to provide any evidence of payment you see fit, and it will be the judge who decides, on the balance of probabilities, whether you have actually paid.
I would be tempted to wait it out.
|
|
|
oldsoak
5,585 posts
71 months
|
chili1 said: .......
Thank you for your recent correspondence regarding the above notice number. You've set the wheels in motion. Whatever you said your letter to them will govern how you proceed...ignore or pay up. Why oh why oh why do people engage in correspondence with these leeches and then come here hoping we can 'rub it better'? Until legally bound to do otherwise the first 'move' especially when you have actually paid the rate for parking (and can prove it), is to ignore subsequent demands for further payment.
|
|
|
superlightr
6,879 posts
132 months
|
does this beg the question - why buy a ticket in the first place at all?
If all they can do is write, if you dont reply they dont know the driver ergo cant issue a summons.
Clearly different with a council parking. Please note I would not do this as I dont think its fair - happy to pay for my parking.
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
chili1
Original Poster
240 posts
106 months
|
Thanks for your replies.
Unfortunately its a works car, so I had to reply under instruction of the Director.
My initial response was " I have paid, I have my bank statement to prove I paid"
Here is a copy of my bank statement, as you have incurred no loss I consider this matter closed".
|
|
|
oldsoak
5,585 posts
71 months
|
superlightr said: does this beg the question - why buy a ticket in the first place at all?
If all they can do is write, if you dont reply they dont know the driver ergo cant issue a summons.
Clearly different with a council parking. Please note I would not do this as I dont think its fair - happy to pay for my parking. It would depend on the honesty (or lack thereof) of the driver. If he/she has paid the parking fee and for some reason the ticket isn't visible to the womble on inspection...should the driver be liable to a charge far in excess of any losses the company suffers because it's womble cannot see the ticket? Personally I would say not. I would also ignore any attempts to extricate more money from me in such a situation. Had I NOT paid, that would be a whole new can of anchovies entirely. So far they have to prove who the driver was (there are moves afoot in law to make the registered keeper liable for such charges... so far this isn't law) so it boils down to how honest (or the state of ones spleen at the time) whether you acquiesce to their demands for payment or not.
|
|
|
tvrgit
7,943 posts
121 months
|
Important point - because this is a train station, you need to be careful before you file under "ignore" - they do have a power to charge for parking and to pursue penalties under the various Railways Acts so "file under bin" would be very bad advice if they have made an appropriate Order.
They might not have one, so ignoring might be an option - but on railway land (unlike supermarkets etc) you need to be very careful.
|
|
|
alock
1,707 posts
80 months
|
superlightr said: does this beg the question - why buy a ticket in the first place at all?
If all they can do is write, if you dont reply they dont know the driver ergo cant issue a summons.
Clearly different with a council parking. Please note I would not do this as I dont think its fair - happy to pay for my parking. For me, it's what's the morally right thing to do. You have a private land owner who wants to control who uses their land. They will allow you to park on it in return for a small payment. This is perfectly fair and sensible so I pay.
|
|
|
superlightr
6,879 posts
132 months
|
alock said: superlightr said: does this beg the question - why buy a ticket in the first place at all?
If all they can do is write, if you dont reply they dont know the driver ergo cant issue a summons.
Clearly different with a council parking. Please note I would not do this as I dont think its fair - happy to pay for my parking. For me, it's what's the morally right thing to do. You have a private land owner who wants to control who uses their land. They will allow you to park on it in return for a small payment. This is perfectly fair and sensible so I pay. Yes - absolutly. As a small business owner I respect others trying to make a living.
|
|
|
aw51 121565
2,696 posts
102 months
|
tvrgit said: Important point - because this is a train station, you need to be careful before you file under "ignore" - they do have a power to charge for parking and to pursue penalties under the various Railways Acts so "file under bin" would be very bad advice if they have made an appropriate Order.
They might not have one, so ignoring might be an option - but on railway land (unlike supermarkets etc) you need to be very careful.  good point - is the phrase "Byelaw 14" mentioned anywhere on the paperwork? If so, they can take you to court, and it will cost you a lot more than the £35 they are 'offering' now. Northern Rail are the usual suspects for doing this, but even so...
|
|
|
3Dee
2,543 posts
90 months
|
If you had paid, and you have proof, then you would have had a ticket (under normal circumstances) - therefore you have paid for the privilege of parking on their 'controlled' land. The fact that the ticket was not seen is another issue entirely.
Was it because it fell off the dash?
Was it because you forgot to put it into the car (rushed to catch train.)
Either way, the ticket is just an indication to the attendant that you have legally paid for the space you have occupied.
In many cases when there is a long queue for the ticket machine, or ticket office, and the train is waiting to go (a very common scenario) I have been advised by the ticket office not to worry about going back to the car, in that you have proof of payment, so if you get a 'ding' just tell the parking company the circumstances with proof ie the receipt. I suspect that provided it was an 'all day' parking purchase, then the statement would be reasonable as evidence and sufficient. However, if it was part of the day, that is a different matter and gets more complicated (without the ticket or receipt) to prove which portion of the day you payed for.
So, since you paid by card (? hope you did), then was it at a machine? If so, then they will have the records from that machine which you can corrolate against the date and time of the attendants ticket. If you paid at the counter (as many do with their train ticket), then you should have a receipt showing what you paid for and when, maybe?
I would still remonstrate with the Parking company, and point out that since you paid, then you feel they are taking advantage of the situation and profiteering from the circumstance. Then go to court!
But then...I may be wrong!
Just my 3 penni-worth!
|
|
|
aw51 121565
2,696 posts
102 months
|
3Dee said: If you had paid, and you have proof, then you would have had a ticket (under normal circumstances) - therefore you have paid for the privilege of parking on their 'controlled' land. The fact that the ticket was not seen is another issue entirely.
Was it because it fell off the dash?
Was it because you forgot to put it into the car (rushed to catch train.)
Either way, the ticket is just an indication to the attendant that you have legally paid for the space you have occupied.
In many cases when there is a long queue for the ticket machine, or ticket office, and the train is waiting to go (a very common scenario) I have been advised by the ticket office not to worry about going back to the car, in that you have proof of payment, so if you get a 'ding' just tell the parking company the circumstances with proof ie the receipt. I suspect that provided it was an 'all day' parking purchase, then the statement would be reasonable as evidence and sufficient. However, if it was part of the day, that is a different matter and gets more complicated (without the ticket or receipt) to prove which portion of the day you payed for.
So, since you paid by card (? hope you did), then was it at a machine? If so, then they will have the records from that machine which you can corrolate against the date and time of the attendants ticket. If you paid at the counter (as many do with their train ticket), then you should have a receipt showing what you paid for and when, maybe?
I would still remonstrate with the Parking company, and point out that since you paid, then you feel they are taking advantage of the situation and profiteering from the circumstance. Then go to court!
But then...I may be wrong!
Just my 3 penni-worth! This (don't bother appealing, and don't otherwise engage with 'them') is an alternatve to ignoring them - but this all depends on whether "Byelaw 14" is involved. If NO "Byelaw 14", then  (and 'they' won't go to court because they won't win unless the case isn't defended). NB This may all well change with the "Freedoms" (Ho Ho!) Bill later this year (no real details available, but it looks like Registered Keepers will be held responsible for paying "private parking tickets" [for want of a better phrase] including 'reasonable charges' arising)  .
|
|
|
Zeeky
1,717 posts
81 months
|
aw51 121565 said: ...If NO "Byelaw 14", then (and 'they' won't go to court because they won't win unless the case isn't defended). You are either remarkably prescient or remarkably ignorant of the law. Why do you persist in asserting this misconception that a driver cannot be legally liable for a parking charge? If you wish to argue the liability point then we can start with first principles. I suspect you don't because you don't understand the legal bases for liability, hence you are not best placed to offer advice on the same. aw51 121565 said: NB This may all well change with the "Freedoms" (Ho Ho!) Bill later this year (no real details available, but it looks like Registered Keepers will be held responsible for paying "private parking tickets" [for want of a better phrase] including 'reasonable charges' arising) . The RK will be no more liable to pay these types of parking charges any more than the driver is now from my reading of the bill. So if your assertion is correct - and I repeat that it isn't - then the legislation will make no difference to liability.
|
|
|
streaky
18,232 posts
118 months
|
Zeeky said: aw51 121565 said: ...If NO "Byelaw 14", then (and 'they' won't go to court because they won't win unless the case isn't defended). You are either remarkably prescient or remarkably ignorant of the law. Why do you persist in asserting this misconception that a driver cannot be legally liable for a parking charge? If you wish to argue the liability point then we can start with first principles. I suspect you don't because you don't understand the legal bases for liability, hence you are not best placed to offer advice on the same. aw51 121565 said: NB This may all well change with the "Freedoms" (Ho Ho!) Bill later this year (no real details available, but it looks like Registered Keepers will be held responsible for paying "private parking tickets" [for want of a better phrase] including 'reasonable charges' arising) . The RK will be no more liable to pay these types of parking charges any more than the driver is now from my reading of the bill. So if your assertion is correct - and I repeat that it isn't - then the legislation will make no difference to liability. Your interpretation of Schedule 3, particularly paragraphs 4 and 5(1)(b) varies from mine, and I should be pleased to hear your reasoning. Streaky PS - the Bill has passed all Parliamentary stages (unchanged in respect of the "Parking on land" and "Recovery of unpaid parking charges" sections - as I said it would be), and received Royal Assent on 1 May - S
|
|
|
JVaughan
5,210 posts
152 months
|
|
|
Mill Wheel
4,991 posts
65 months
|
3Dee said: If you had paid, and you have proof, then you would have had a ticket (under normal circumstances) - therefore you have paid for the privilege of parking on their 'controlled' land. The fact that the ticket was not seen is another issue entirely.
Was it because it fell off the dash?
Was it because you forgot to put it into the car (rushed to catch train.) It was covered in the very first sentence... OP said: Long story short, paid for parking at local train station, ticket blew off windscreen, OP continues, stating that he has a bank statement that shows he paid - so I assume this was by credit/debit card? The car park have suffered no loss, he shouldn't have to pay anything more IMHO.
|
|
|
herewego
5,721 posts
82 months
|
Mill Wheel said: 3Dee said: If you had paid, and you have proof, then you would have had a ticket (under normal circumstances) - therefore you have paid for the privilege of parking on their 'controlled' land. The fact that the ticket was not seen is another issue entirely.
Was it because it fell off the dash?
Was it because you forgot to put it into the car (rushed to catch train.) It was covered in the very first sentence... OP said: Long story short, paid for parking at local train station, ticket blew off windscreen, OP continues, stating that he has a bank statement that shows he paid - so I assume this was by credit/debit card? The car park have suffered no loss, he shouldn't have to pay anything more IMHO. They have to pay the attendants wages and s/he has spent some time ticketing and following the failure to display so there is some loss.
|
|
|
Dwight VanDriver
6,388 posts
113 months
|
tvrgit said: Important point - because this is a train station, you need to be careful before you file under "ignore" - they do have a power to charge for parking and to pursue penalties under the various Railways Acts so "file under bin" would be very bad advice if they have made an appropriate Order.
They might not have one, so ignoring might be an option - but on railway land (unlike supermarkets etc) you need to be very careful. Wise words indeed. See Article 14 in http://www.tinyurl.com/bubueoewhilst at it go through the rest to see where the By Law states ticket has to be displayed???? There should be some information in the Notice to Owner of the infringement if proceedings under the ByLaw or if non stated then probably a Private jobbie. If the later then ticket should be headed PRIVATE PARKING TICKET. If however headed PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE they have statutory authority to chase one. dvd
|
|
|
chriscpritchard
232 posts
34 months
|
Did the ticket come with a sticky bit, if it didn't then councils have, in the past, lost appeals to PTAS etc on that basis and so even if a section 14 order is in place, the bank statement should be sufficiant!
|
|
