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TeamD
Original Poster
3,425 posts
102 months
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It seems that the Mrs has fallen foul of a scamera, the same camera within 9 days of the first snapshot, now obviously I know that she should have made sure that she knew what the speed limit of the road was but it seems a bit unfair due to the fact that as of the first FPN she now knows that the stretch of road is a 30 limit but was still unaware as of the date of the next FPN. Any wrinkles in the law that could assist in a defence of the second FPN? Seems to me that you could drive down the same road 4 times in a day, or indeed pass 4 scameras without changing speed and lose you licence in one fell swoop 
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kaf
323 posts
17 months
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How can she not know the speed limit?
And yes, 4 times on the same stretch of road is perfectly feasible.
If you went and shot the same person 4 different times in one day, you wouldn't expect to be let off with three of them would you?
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TeamD
Original Poster
3,425 posts
102 months
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kaf said: How can she not know the speed limit?
And yes, 4 times on the same stretch of road is perfectly feasible.
If you went and shot the same person 4 different times in one day, you wouldn't expect to be let off with three of them would you? How helpful. How about foliage obscuring speed limit signs? An example but often seen. It would have been late a night so dark too. It's most likely that she had to make a judgement call based upon road appearance/adjacent buildings etc. Exceeding the speed limit is hardly shooting someone is it? Get things into proportion.
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14-7
5,743 posts
61 months
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TeamD said: it seems a bit unfair It isn't. What made her think that it was anything but a 30? Were there any speed limit repeaters or signs telling her it was a 40/50? TeamD said: Any wrinkles in the law that could assist in a defence of the second FPN? Not when the offences are 9 days apart.
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Wacky Racer
20,337 posts
117 months
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kaf said: How can she not know the speed limit?
And yes, 4 times on the same stretch of road is perfectly feasible.
If you went and shot the same person 4 different times in one day, you wouldn't expect to be let off with three of them would you? You would certainly be a lousy shot, that's for sure....... 
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Ki3r
1,683 posts
29 months
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TeamD said: How helpful.
How about foliage obscuring speed limit signs? An example but often seen. It would have been late a night so dark too. It's most likely that she had to make a judgement call based upon road appearance/adjacent buildings etc.
Exceeding the speed limit is hardly shooting someone is it? Get things into proportion. Do you have a google maps link to the road? Worth remembering that if it isn't posted, but has street lights spaced evenly apart, its a 30mph.
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JulesB
509 posts
29 months
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Id love to offer some advice to get you out of this but unfortunately cant, my brother is a plod and got done 3 times by the same mobile speed van in the space of a few hours (daft I know) and he ended up with a ban. Just because she commited the same offence within a certain time period doesnt make it less of an offence sadly.
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mantis84
1,163 posts
33 months
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TeamD said: It seems that the Mrs has fallen foul of a scamera, the same camera within 9 days of the first snapshot, now obviously I know that she should have made sure that she knew what the speed limit of the road was but it seems a bit unfair due to the fact that as of the first FPN she now knows that the stretch of road is a 30 limit but was still unaware as of the date of the next FPN. Any wrinkles in the law that could assist in a defence of the second FPN? Seems to me that you could drive down the same road 4 times in a day, or indeed pass 4 scameras without changing speed and lose you licence in one fell swoop Unless the signs indicating the speed limit on the road where your wife was caught were missing or obscured, which given that you haven't said so seems unlikely, there are no legal loopholes are excuses for speeding just because you aren't aware of the limit. Last time I checked, drivers were responsible for looking at the signs and driving at or below the speed limit. Whilst it's tough luck for your wife, it's not unfair.
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Snowboy
3,453 posts
21 months
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There’s nothing that would mitigate the second offence that wouldn’t also mitigate the first offence.
Well, unless something had changed massively in those 9 days to change things.
If it’s a 30 limit and a residential road with streetlights your probably buggered because those areas are 30 even if you can’t see the sign.
The shooting analogy is a good one.
Sure, speeding isn’t as serious as shooting.
But the concept is the same.
If you shoplifted twice in 9 days should you be let off the second time?
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bulldog5046
975 posts
48 months
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might be worth a try if you've not yet received the FPN for the first offence.
I had 2 tickets 2 minutes apart from the same camera and pleeded with the camera partnership to only issue 3 points as i had not known my error until the notice was received.
They cancelled one of the penalties and just issues 3 pointd for the offence.
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mantis84
1,163 posts
33 months
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TeamD said: It would have been late a night so dark too. It's most likely that she had to make a judgement call based upon road appearance/adjacent buildings etc. Because it was dark? Not sure if you're being serious or not now. Does your wife know how to work those bright shiny things on the front of the car? Think they're called headlights. As has been said above, if there were no signs equally spaced street lamps in a built up area = 30 mph limit. But if there had been street lamps your darkness-based defence may fail...
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TeamD
Original Poster
3,425 posts
102 months
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mantis84 said: Because it was dark? Not sure if you're being serious or not now. Does your wife know how to work those bright shiny things on the front of the car? Think they're called headlights.
As has been said above, if there were no signs equally spaced street lamps in a built up area = 30 mph limit. But if there had been street lamps your darkness-based defence may fail... Since I haven't been there myself then it's difficult to comment really. Yet another bloody chore for my week off
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over_the_hill
1,579 posts
116 months
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Any chance of a Speed Awareness Course for at least the first one ?
Then she will only be on 3 pts for the second offence.
The shooting analogy is poor - you would only be done for murder once if they died or ABH/GBH if they didn't
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Snowboy
3,453 posts
21 months
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TeamD said: Since I haven't been there myself then it's difficult to comment really. Yet another bloody chore for my week off Do you mean that it’s a chore to go and check the camera and road? I’d suggest you don’t bother. The likelihood of there being a legal defence is pretty slim. Most cameras do have decent speed limit signs around them, drivers just tend not to notice them. On a different note. Is it better to tell the Mrs that you haven’t been to the road and don’t know the layout, or is it better to go there, see the street light and 30 limit signs and have to side with the law against the wife. Either way, you’re not getting any action.
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supertouring
1,005 posts
103 months
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bulldog5046 said: might be worth a try if you've not yet received the FPN for the first offence.
I had 2 tickets 2 minutes apart from the same camera and pleeded with the camera partnership to only issue 3 points as i had not known my error until the notice was received.
They cancelled one of the penalties and just issues 3 pointd for the offence. Since when was stupidity a legal defence?
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bulldog5046
975 posts
48 months
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supertouring said: Since when was stupidity a legal defence? well, it worked in 2006. Might be worth a shot?
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Brite spark
1,183 posts
71 months
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TeamD said: Any wrinkles in the law that could assist in a defence of the second FPN? Seems to me that you could drive down the same road 4 times in a day, or indeed pass 4 scameras without changing speed and lose you licence in one fell swoop Don't know if this is the case or just a myth but If you passed a couple of cameras in one journey you could try to argue it was the same offence and not seperate offences. Over several days though I guess you have to hope for a speed awareness course (if within the limit for the course) in lieu of the points and then three points for the other fpn
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vonhosen
27,207 posts
87 months
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over_the_hill said: Any chance of a Speed Awareness Course for at least the first one ?
Then she will only be on 3 pts for the second offence.
The shooting analogy is poor - you would only be done for murder once if they died or ABH/GBH if they didn't If you shot someone once & they survived, if you came back 9 days later & did it again then you wouldn't be charged with one count.
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HD Adam
1,677 posts
54 months
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Here's the bottom line.
My wife and my daughters have been caught for speeding numerous times.
Just like your wife, they are too busy thinking about cushions, fluffy bunnies, chocolate, pretty flowers or Cock to actually pay attention to their surroundings.
When driving the car, the act of driving comes about 4th on the priority list below putting on make up, yapping on the phone and other similar goings on.
Expect this to happen on a regular basis.
HTH
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TeamD
Original Poster
3,425 posts
102 months
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Listen to you (well most of you) lot. Cor! Anyone who claims that they have never inadvertantly exceeded the speed limit is a complete and utter liar.
Anyway, my question was based upon the difference between being done by a scamera vs being done by a proper living breathing copper.
In instance 1 where you don't know that you have commited any offence for up to 14 days after the event (distance knicking) took place and could blithely have continued under the misapprehension that the road was a 40 limit in the intervening time.
Whereas, instance 2, you know as soon as plod pulls you, you say "oh bugger" and "fair cop officer" take your FPN and file the fact that the road is actually a 30 limit, if subsequently you do forget then you really are stupid.
That was the point for those of you too caught up in the witch hunt :P
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