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Rovinghawk

2,024 posts

27 months

[news] 
Saturday 12th May 2012 quote quote all
Danesgate said:
Thank goodness, I had been wondering if your comment earlier was just personal abuse towards me.
I thought we were fighting- if that's not the case then I'll apologise.
Want to make up & be friends? We don't have to kiss, hug or cry. (Or wear make-up, lest you think I meant that).

RH

Danesgate

509 posts

25 months

[news] 
Saturday 12th May 2012 quote quote all
Rovinghawk said:
Danesgate said:
Thank goodness, I had been wondering if your comment earlier was just personal abuse towards me.
I thought we were fighting- if that's not the case then I'll apologise.
Want to make up & be friends? We don't have to kiss, hug or cry. (Or wear make-up, lest you think I meant that).

RH
Awwwww thanks smile

And here was me thinking you were a heartless Mail reader biggrin

You do seem to spend an inordonate amount of posts sniping at the cops though - and it begins to get as tiring as someone forever trying to defend every action of every one of the 110,000 Officers.

Sorry, 100,000 Officers. eek

Oh, hang on, 96,000 Officers. furious


Rovinghawk

2,024 posts

27 months

[news] 
Saturday 12th May 2012 quote quote all
Danesgate said:
someone forever trying to defend every action of every one of the........... Officers.
Might I suggest that some of them are simply indefensible?

RH

Danesgate

509 posts

25 months

[news] 
Saturday 12th May 2012 quote quote all
Rovinghawk said:
Danesgate said:
someone forever trying to defend every action of every one of the........... Officers.
Might I suggest that some of them are simply indefensible?

RH
I'll forgive you for editing the quote to take it out of context, you said sorry for doing that before and this is a TIC. biggrin

I agree, there are some Officers whose actions are without reasonable defence.

Not a great surprise when you take any group of the population with a sample size of 100,000 though.

I have enough experience of events that reached the national press to know that the Daily Mail is not a good source of balanced or fair reporting.

It does get tiresome when you bang on about how awful all these Cops are though.

From personal experience, for every rotten apple there are at least a dozen diamonds.

Greendubber

2,808 posts

72 months

[news] 
Saturday 12th May 2012 quote quote all
Rovinghawk said:
Might I suggest that some of them are simply indefensible?

RH
I'd suggest a very small minority
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Elroy Blue

5,684 posts

61 months

[news] 
Saturday 12th May 2012 quote quote all
Oh look.

Mr Winsor is a partner in a law firm that has G4S as it's client. Part of his review suggests that policing would be more effective if more private companies were involved.

G4S are one of the companies that have been involved in bidding for contracts to provide services to police forces up and down the country.

White & Case advised G4S in their contract negotiations


So the partner in the law firm advising the company that wants to profit from policing is asked to conduct an independent review of policing and comes up with the idea of involving more private companies?

Funny old world. Who'd have thought it!

ClaphamGT3

Original Poster:

3,369 posts

112 months

[news] 
Saturday 12th May 2012 quote quote all
Elroy Blue said:
Oh look.

Mr Winsor is a partner in a law firm that has G4S as it's client. Part of his review suggests that policing would be more effective if more private companies were involved.

G4S are one of the companies that have been involved in bidding for contracts to provide services to police forces up and down the country.

White & Case advised G4S in their contract negotiations


So the partner in the law firm advising the company that wants to profit from policing is asked to conduct an independent review of policing and comes up with the idea of involving more private companies?

Funny old world. Who'd have thought it!
Don't judge all professions by the standards of your own...

Danesgate

509 posts

25 months

[news] 
Saturday 12th May 2012 quote quote all
ClaphamGT3 said:
Don't judge all professions by the standards of your own...
You're right of course.

Few professions are quite so vigourous at getting the bad 'uns out as the Police.

10 Pence Short

27,632 posts

86 months

[news] 
Saturday 12th May 2012 quote quote all
Elroy Blue said:
Oh look.

Mr Winsor is a partner in a law firm that has G4S as it's client. Part of his review suggests that policing would be more effective if more private companies were involved.

G4S are one of the companies that have been involved in bidding for contracts to provide services to police forces up and down the country.

White & Case advised G4S in their contract negotiations


So the partner in the law firm advising the company that wants to profit from policing is asked to conduct an independent review of policing and comes up with the idea of involving more private companies?

Funny old world. Who'd have thought it!
Oh, right. Now you're unwilling to even discuss the report (the one you were criticising me for not discussing with you and asked me to read, so you could discuss it with me), because the whole thing is, in your eyes, bent.

To date, you seem to have a fixed position, but with no reasoning of your own as to how or why you've come to it. It's almost as if you've formed an opinion without reading the report.

mph1977

4,810 posts

37 months

[news] 
Saturday 12th May 2012 quote quote all
Elroy Blue said:
Private sector's current performance in the emergency services:

“Debts at the private company operating London’s fleet of fire engines threaten its ability to tackle blazes in high-rise buildings, official papers warn. A report obtained by the Observer, written by the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority, warned that AssetCo, which owns the capital’s 500 appliances and 50,000 pieces of critical safety kit, was beset by crippling financial problems that were affecting its aerial operations in particular. These involve the high-reach appliances used to tackle fires in offices and large industrial blazes that are considered to be of critical importance in the capital. The report notes: ‘The overall availability of the aerial fleet continues to be poor because of the ongoing excessive downtimes for maintenance, repairs, fault diagnosis and technical investigations. AssetCo has not yet achieved a maintenance and repair regime for the aerial fleet which brings downtimes within acceptable levels.’ “

And you ask what the problem with it is?
asset co ... jump on the bus , jump off the bus


just to add to the list of assetco woes

- 'Crusader' and derivative ambulances found to be unsuitable for one of their advertised uses becaude the interior mouldings were heavily overweight and a change in the fuel tank location and size by Renault made it very easy to overload the front axle

- the whole UVG / UVM debacle

Rovinghawk

2,024 posts

27 months

[news] 
Saturday 12th May 2012 quote quote all
Danesgate said:
I agree, there are some Officers whose actions are without reasonable defence.

From personal experience, for every rotten apple there are at least a dozen diamonds.
Whilst you might very well be correct, it seems to be common practice here for the actions of the rotten apples to be defended not because of the merits of the case but because of a closing of ranks against outsiders.

There would also seem to be a distinction drawn between 'us' & 'them'. I know that such was common practice back when I was in uniform (military versus 'lesser people') but I now realise that I was very wrong to do so.

As I've considered your statement, please consider mine & how the situation I've described might appear to those outsiders.

RH

mph1977

4,810 posts

37 months

[news] 
Saturday 12th May 2012 quote quote all
Danesgate said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
Don't judge all professions by the standards of your own...
You're right of course.

Few professions are quite so vigourous at getting the bad 'uns out as the Police.
other than
none medical health professionals ( i.e. Nurses / midwives and the HPC professions) who else do people count as acceptably keen at dealing with poor / bad practitioners ...

davemac250

4,204 posts

74 months

[news] 
Saturday 12th May 2012 quote quote all
10ps.

Name a privatisation of a public body that has been a success.

Where service levels to all users has been maintained.

Where the private companies have reduced costs, and passed those savings back to the tax payer.

And maintained this for, say 5 years?


davemac250

4,204 posts

74 months

[news] 
Saturday 12th May 2012 quote quote all
10 Pence Short said:
I don't read the Daily Mail and I have W2 in front of me.

You didn't answer my question before, perhaps you'd do so now- do you agree with the remits of the report?
One part of the report is very contradictory.

Winsor wants to make the police service more professional, and to attract better applicants and therefore recruits.

How does reducing pay and conditions achieve that?

davemac250

4,204 posts

74 months

[news] 
Saturday 12th May 2012 quote quote all
Rovinghawk said:
I thought we were fighting- if that's not the case then I'll apologise.
Want to make up & be friends? We don't have to kiss, hug or cry. (Or wear make-up, lest you think I meant that).

RH
Fighting?

You honestly think this is fighting?

You sad little man.

That is my first, last and only personal insult.

That post alone measures you.

Danesgate

509 posts

25 months

[news] 
Saturday 12th May 2012 quote quote all
Rovinghawk said:
Danesgate said:
I agree, there are some Officers whose actions are without reasonable defence.

From personal experience, for every rotten apple there are at least a dozen diamonds.
Whilst you might very well be correct, it seems to be common practice here for the actions of the rotten apples to be defended not because of the merits of the case but because of a closing of ranks against outsiders.

There would also seem to be a distinction drawn between 'us' & 'them'. I know that such was common practice back when I was in uniform (military versus 'lesser people') but I now realise that I was very wrong to do so.

As I've considered your statement, please consider mine & how the situation I've described might appear to those outsiders.

RH
Defending the indefensible is no better than suggesting that one rotten apple means the whole barrel is gone.

Those on the "inside" often have a perspective that those on the "outside" don't - I can think of a story in the National Press that on the face of it appeared like the Police were officious and heavy handed (which is how the Mail reported it, funnily enough) - in fact there was a thread on here supporting the poor chap involved. But I knew that the person painted as an innocent victim had lied to cover his tracks, and was in fear that he'd be "found out" if the press dug any deeper - the Police could not disclose these facts as the case had not gone to court.

The good thing about being part of a team is that folks stand up for you, the bad thing is that you can find yourself standing up for folks who you really don't know whole lot about.

Your statements are correct. Thank you.

But it is the unremitting negativity against the cops in (pretty much) everything that you post that reduces your credibility - if you would introduce a degree of balance, it would seem more like a debate of views and less like arguing with a drunk.

biggrin

RH - Make Monday, Wednesday and Saturday "Be nice to Police" days, Elroy Blue hopes to achieve the same with David Cameron.

biggrin



Edited by Danesgate on Saturday 12th May 20:26

Rovinghawk

2,024 posts

27 months

[news] 
Saturday 12th May 2012 quote quote all
Danesgate said:
Defending the indefensible is no better than suggesting that one rotten apple means the whole barrel is gone.
True enough.

Danesgate said:
the bad thing is that you can find yourself standing up for folks who you really don't know whole lot about.
You shouldn't have to do so if you don't think it's right.

Danesgate said:
if you would introduce a degree of balance, it would seem more like a debate of views and less like arguing with a drunk............ Make Monday, Wednesday and Saturday "Be nice to Police" days
Let's give it a go & see where it leads.

btw- I refer you to Davemac's comments above & elsewhere- the unremitting criticism isn't purely one-sided. I don't think he got the humour at the top of the page (I presume that you did)

RH

Edited by Rovinghawk on Saturday 12th May 20:37

davemac250

4,204 posts

74 months

[news] 
Saturday 12th May 2012 quote quote all
Humour.

As in funny?

You might want to use italics to point out the difference. wink

Danesgate

509 posts

25 months

[news] 
Saturday 12th May 2012 quote quote all
Rovinghawk said:
Let's give it a go & see where it leads.

btw- I refer you to Davemac's comments above & elsewhere- the unremitting criticism isn't purely one-sided. I don't think he got the humour at the top of the page (I presume that you did)

RH

RH
My children use the same excuse when I find them doing something naughty - they point to a sibling and say that they are doing somethig worse biggrin

We are not fighting. If we were, you'd not be in a position to type a reply. smile

Rovinghawk

2,024 posts

27 months

[news] 
Saturday 12th May 2012 quote quote all
Danesgate said:
My children use the same excuse when I find them doing something naughty - they point to a sibling and say that they are doing somethig worse biggrin

We are not fighting. If we were, you'd not be in a position to type a reply. smile
I'm not really a 'LOL' kinda guy but that post genuinely had me laughing aloud.

RH
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