How legal is this sign?
Discussion
veryRS said:
* Which begs another question...why do you get so wound up about dog s
t in your field when the countryside is awash with cow/sheep/rabbit/horse st?
Well I'll tell you.t in your field when the countryside is awash with cow/sheep/rabbit/horse st? Edited by veryRS on Sunday 6th May 17:54
We both know that dog s
t is horrible stuff. We have some horses on site, they eat hay and I make the hay. We have a field that is NOT a public right of way that we grow the grass that is made into hay. It IS fenced, yet people will drive up to 10 miles to let their dogs run around and st in this field. Why is this a problem? Well, aside from the feeding horses dog s
t, the hay has to be handled. Firstly by me, then my the girls that feed the horses. Once in a while while I am baling the baler will block up and need unblocking by hand by pulling the the hay our of the chamber by hand. This is a dusty, poxy job, but comes with the territory. What makes it worse is when some selfish dog owner has let their dog st in the grass and I get it on my hands. Keeping in mind that I will be in the tractor for 12+ hours and away from a sink, where do I wash my hands so I can eat?One day a dog will be in the grass while I am mowing or baling. I won't be stopping.
People who are thinking about getting a dog need to stop and think about whether or not they can look after it properly and keep it without it effecting other people. There are an awful lot of dog owners that give not a s
t about others, just as long as their dog is ok. A few weeks ago I was trimming a hedge to make a public footpath more passable. I noticed lots of mud on my wheels, which was odd as it had not rained for weeks. The mud was dog s
t. If it was not on my wheels it will have been on some bodies shoes. richyb said:
oldsoak said:
"designated road" means a length of road specified by an order on behalf of the local authority in whose area the length of road is situated.
We are talking about a public open space and not a road though. The RTA isn't enforceable here. Byelaws vary from place to place but my experience has been these cannot be enforced as is and dogs or owners are dealt with under public order legislation (if the situation requires it).
Edited by richyb on Sunday 6th May 13:42
I thought I'd show you a bye-law that didn't fit your categorisation..OK?
Gaspode said:
I agree, the officer almost certainly did not have the right to do that. The relevant act only permits farmers to shoot dogs in order to protect their livestock. Had I shot the dog under the circumstances, I suspect the owners might well have had some sort of case against me. As it was, they took it straight to the vets and had it humanely destroyed, and the matter ended there. We did not prosecute the owner as we felt the destruction of their dog was punishment enough. One of the ewes that had been savaged had to be destroyed, and two survived.
I can well see some of the local police where I grew up doing that, but I can't think of a single vet I've ever known who would destroy the dog without the owner's express agreement - including making it clear that their permission was required because the police had no power to "require" it. Any who failed to do so would be lining themselves up for a nasty damages case (LOTS of emotional suffering!), potential criminal charges for destruction of property, and probably severe professional sanctions.
Willy Nilly said:
One day a dog will be in the grass while I am mowing or baling. I won't be stopping.
Ah. Another revenge killing. How would killing an innocent animal help?I agree city folk simply do not understand rural life.
I live very rural. In Scotland. Miles from anywhere, and we do sometimes get city folk who visit the area who think they can park anywhere and walk anywhere with dogs loose, so I do understand where you are coming from but I cannot condone killing animals just as a way to vent your anger.
Willy Nilly said:
Well I'll tell you.
We both know that dog st is horrible stuff. We have some horses on site, they eat hay and I make the hay. We have a field that is NOT a public right of way that we grow the grass that is made into hay. It IS fenced, yet people will drive up to 10 miles to let their dogs run around and st in this field.
Why is this a problem? Well, aside from the feeding horses dog st, the hay has to be handled. Firstly by me, then my the girls that feed the horses. Once in a while while I am baling the baler will block up and need unblocking by hand by pulling the the hay our of the chamber by hand. This is a dusty, poxy job, but comes with the territory. What makes it worse is when some selfish dog owner has let their dog st in the grass and I get it on my hands. Keeping in mind that I will be in the tractor for 12+ hours and away from a sink, where do I wash my hands so I can eat?
Yep dog sWe both know that dog s
t is horrible stuff. We have some horses on site, they eat hay and I make the hay. We have a field that is NOT a public right of way that we grow the grass that is made into hay. It IS fenced, yet people will drive up to 10 miles to let their dogs run around and st in this field. Why is this a problem? Well, aside from the feeding horses dog s
t, the hay has to be handled. Firstly by me, then my the girls that feed the horses. Once in a while while I am baling the baler will block up and need unblocking by hand by pulling the the hay our of the chamber by hand. This is a dusty, poxy job, but comes with the territory. What makes it worse is when some selfish dog owner has let their dog st in the grass and I get it on my hands. Keeping in mind that I will be in the tractor for 12+ hours and away from a sink, where do I wash my hands so I can eat?t is nasty stuff which is why we bag it and bin it always. However tramping in cow st isnt much nicer.Willy Nilly said:
One day a dog will be in the grass while I am mowing or baling. I won't be stopping.
You sir really are a total prick. You do realise deliberate harm to an animal is a criminal offence in this country yes?But by your logic if I happen to wake up and find a cow wading through my garden eating my veg and denting my car (I live in very rural Yorkshire and yes this happened in the past) then you'd be Ok for me to whip out my shotgun and slaughter it before I bothered calling the farmer to come reclaim it's carcase?
By the way, you seem to have some dog anxiety issues. I'd get those seen to by a trickcyclist if I were you.
Jasandjules said:
Willy Nilly said:
One day a dog will be in the grass while I am mowing or baling. I won't be stopping.
How to make sure people understand what p**ks people can be. Let's hope one day you get banned from keeping or being near animals with that kind of attitude.
We have quite a bit to hassle with dog walkers, they're not that much better than pikies.
When you get cab into your cab with dog s
t on your hands and can't eat or drink anything, you may well share the same opinion as I do. JumboBeef said:
Do you blame the dog or the owner?
Quite. Do the dogs take themselves to your field? Do they decide whether their st gets picked up or not?You'd be better off driving your combine at the owner, might get the message through. Might get you into trouble though so best go for the defenceless animal.
Would also echo some of the sentiments above, to some people their dogs are hugely important, I've said this on another thread (unfortunately this subject seems to crop up a lot) but in the majority of cases I'd think the farmer would be much better going after the person financially rather than shooting the dog - if my dog attacked sheep (no chance, but she might run around which could spook sheep) and caused injuries by them panicking, I would much rather pay £5000 to avoid the farmer taking pot shots.
Lastly you could come up against a character as outlined above, I know of people that would probably set fire to your house if you killed their dog.
Willy Nilly said:
When you get cab into your cab with dog s
t on your hands and can't eat or drink anything, you may well share the same opinion as I do. t? 12+ hours away from a sink. You must get caught short now and again. Don't you wash your hands? I suggest getting a dog and training it to lick your ringpiece clean.JumboBeef said:
No one is disputing what a dog can do to a sheep (I've seen it). What is disputed is:
1/ Police acting as judge, jury and executioner on a dog, which at that time, was under control.
2/ A dog owner simply allowing their dog to be destroyed without any argument or complaint.
We, of course, don't know where this happened. Was it in Cloud Cuckooland?
Not "Cloud Cuckoo Land", but rural Gloucestershire, in 1989. I agree that the Policeman involved was probably acting outside his authority in asking me if I wanted to despatch the dog there and then, but he may have been thinking it would have been easier that way than us having to go to the lengths of applying for a destruction order on the animal should the owner not have it put down voluntarily. As it was, the owner recognised she had a major problem on her hands, and accepted the best thing was to have the dog destroyed immediately.1/ Police acting as judge, jury and executioner on a dog, which at that time, was under control.
2/ A dog owner simply allowing their dog to be destroyed without any argument or complaint.
We, of course, don't know where this happened. Was it in Cloud Cuckooland?
Back then, the view of the courts was generally 'once a sheep worrier, always a sheep worrier' and they therefore usually granted destruction orders in such a situation. The legal position and the practice in the courts may well have changed in the intervening 23 years, we haven't had a case of dogs worrying our sheep since. We have used llamas as flock guardians for the last 10 years or so, and generally dogs seem to be terrified of them - with good reason apparently, although as I say we've not any problems ourselves.
The fact remains the the 1971 act does give farmers the right to shoot dogs which they believe are a threat to their livestock, and it is incumbent on dog owners to keep their pets under control at all times when in the countryside (I guess in towns, too). Letting one's dog off the lead when (unknowingly or not) there are livestock about carries a great deal of risk to the dog.
If anyone would like to see the pictures of our sheep with their flanks ripped open and their guts hanging out, I'll try and dig them out, but this was in the days before digital photography so it might take a while to find them.
It's just money, though. Having spent 25 years in rural Cumbria, I've seen plenty of instances where dogs have killed sheep. I've yet to find an instance where the farmer didn't find it all fine and dandy by having his palms crossed with (more than he'd get at market) silver. That's not typically something offered by the worried owner to avoid their animal being destroyed, but extorted by the farmer knowing the worry of the dog's owner at the consequences if they don't, usually.
If the farmer can be recompensed financially for their loss, there is no equality in the farmer losing an unloved asset and another losing a much loved family pet in return.
If the farmer can be recompensed financially for their loss, there is no equality in the farmer losing an unloved asset and another losing a much loved family pet in return.
10 Pence Short said:
It's just money, though. Having spent 25 years in rural Cumbria, I've seen plenty of instances where dogs have killed sheep. I've yet to find an instance where the farmer didn't find it all fine and dandy by having his palms crossed with (more than he'd get at market) silver. That's not typically something offered by the worried owner to avoid their animal being destroyed, but extorted by the farmer knowing the worry of the dog's owner at the consequences if they don't, usually.
If the farmer can be recompensed financially for their loss, there is no equality in the farmer losing an unloved asset and another losing a much loved family pet in return.
This is undoubtedly true in many circumstances, but your last sentence is very telling. Some farmers run very large numbers of sheep and a few more or less makes little difference - especially when one is running a thousand or so Herdwicks on the fells of Cumbria. But many famers and smallholders are like us, and keep relatively small numbers of highly-prized pedigree rare breed sheep. These animals are cosseted and much loved, and the loss of a single such animal comes very hard to the owner.If the farmer can be recompensed financially for their loss, there is no equality in the farmer losing an unloved asset and another losing a much loved family pet in return.
Gaspode said:
This is undoubtedly true in many circumstances, but your last sentence is very telling. Some farmers run very large numbers of sheep and a few more or less makes little difference - especially when one is running a thousand or so Herdwicks on the fells of Cumbria. But many famers and smallholders are like us, and keep relatively small numbers of highly-prized pedigree rare breed sheep. These animals are cosseted and much loved, and the loss of a single such animal comes very hard to the owner.
I would have thought, were the sheep killed more or less pets to you (irrespective of the value), it would put you in a better position to empathise with the dog owner (assuming they were decent people who were horrified by what their animal had done)? Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff