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superlightr
6,879 posts
132 months
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As has been already mentioned - the tenant MUST give 1 months notice from a rent date to expire at the end of a rental period.
So long as you got the LL NTQ before the start of the 2mth notice period it should be valid. Why do you think its unfair to give it to your 2mth +1day?
You mention your deposit it registered - good.
So how has the LL treated you badly or unreasonably?
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subbs
Original Poster
222 posts
30 months
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surveyor said: Ah okay i see. Will just let him keep my deposit then i guess. Thanks for helping me out get to the information i needed!
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subbs
Original Poster
222 posts
30 months
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superlightr said: As has been already mentioned - the tenant MUST give 1 months notice from a rent date to expire at the end of a rental period.
So long as you got the LL NTQ before the start of the 2mth notice period it should be valid. Why do you think its unfair to give it to your 2mth +1day?
You mention your deposit it registered - good.
So how has the LL treated you badly or unreasonably? I just personally think it was unfair to post it the day before as i did not receive it and read it until it was too late to give my notice in meaning i have to pay another months rent. I just would have thought after being a good tenant and having good relations with my landlord he would have dropped me a call or text before letting me know of his intentions. The way he's carried out it guarentees him an extra months rent when he knows i probably won't be there as will have to find other accommodation as soon as possible. It may be fair legally for him to do that. I just think its cheeky and uncalled for.
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Ean218
961 posts
119 months
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subbs said: It may be fair legally for him to do that. I just think its cheeky and uncalled for. A landlord, any landlord, is not your best mate. They are in it as a business, so if they are any good they run it as a business. There is nothing cheeky, uncalled for or unfair in carrying out the terms of a contract to the letter, it is what is expected.
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wolves_wanderer
7,946 posts
106 months
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Looks like you have no choice OP. Could you delay signing for your new place or pull out and find somewhere else? Failing that then just enjoy a nice, relaxed moving experience. When we moved out of our last rental we had an overlap of about 3 weeks from completing on our house so avoided all the stress of getting everything done in a day.
Make sure you don't give your LL the keys back early just to do him a favour as you won't be there.
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subbs
Original Poster
222 posts
30 months
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Okay thanks for that blast of reality Ean. I was under the impression that we would be together forever...
I know he is running a business and i wouldn't usually expect anything less if it wasn't for the fact that just a few months ago his attitude was totally different and he agreed that i could just pay any weeks i was there until i left.
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subbs
Original Poster
222 posts
30 months
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wolves_wanderer said: Looks like you have no choice OP. Could you delay signing for your new place or pull out and find somewhere else? Failing that then just enjoy a nice, relaxed moving experience. When we moved out of our last rental we had an overlap of about 3 weeks from completing on our house so avoided all the stress of getting everything done in a day.
Make sure you don't give your LL the keys back early just to do him a favour as you won't be there. Yeah i think thats probably what i'll do mate. Nice &relaxed take my time, going on holiday in a few weeks anyway so will get it all done before then. Will agree to let him keep my deposit that way it doesn't feel like ive got as much money going out... Sort of. Or get the OH to move and sit &watch with a beer? Haha 
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superlightr
6,879 posts
132 months
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subbs said: Okay thanks for that blast of reality Ean. I was under the impression that we would be together forever...
I know he is running a business and i wouldn't usually expect anything less if it wasn't for the fact that just a few months ago his attitude was totally different and he agreed that i could just pay any weeks i was there until i left. get anything in writing?
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NiceCupOfTea
21,950 posts
120 months
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This happened to me when I moved out of my last rented place into a place we had bought. We had an overlap of nearly a month and I was furious to discover that the prick had been in decorating in that time while we still had stuff there. As far as I was concerned, I was paying him rent so he should have stayed the hell out without notice. This was 10 years ago and I'm still cross!
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Devil2575
4,429 posts
57 months
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Ean218 said: A landlord, any landlord, is not your best mate. They are in it as a business, so if they are any good they run it as a business. There is nothing cheeky, uncalled for or unfair in carrying out the terms of a contract to the letter, it is what is expected. This has nothing to do with business IMHO. Unless by business you mean 'screwing people over'. I've heard this kind of thing time and time again from people trying to justify amoral behaviour. The last time it was when a restaurant in central London ejected a group in for a 40th birthday party from the table after the main course because a celebrity had turned up and needed the table. Totally ruined the celebration. The line was the in order to stay in business places have to do stuff like this. Rubbish. It's a question of how low you are willing to go chasing every last bit of cash. Sorry for the rant, this kind of stuff just winds me up.
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Pontoneer
2,556 posts
55 months
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Hmmm , why should the tenant have to give any notice when the landlord has already given him written notice requiring him to leave within two months ?
The tenant is simply complying with the landlord's requirement for him to leave within the two month period . Moving out less than two months from the date of notice is still moving out WITHIN the two months quoted .
The landlord is presumably upset since he is unlikely to re-let for the final few weeks of his ownership .
A written response dated with the same date as the landlord's notice to quit , agreeing to move out within one month should suffice - it would be a pity that the letter never arrived for a week or more , but sometimes mail is delayed .
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Air Support
383 posts
78 months
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My experience of this is different.
I gave one month's notice about 2 months after the expiry of my 6 months AST as we were buying a house. My Landlord argued that this should run from the day in the month that the tenancy started from although my agreement was similar to yours and only stated one month's notice. This meant a further 3 weeks rent on top of my one month notice.
I argued this with the landlord (who was an ex-solicitor) and the letting agent. My solictor (for my house purchase) advised me that the situation depended very much on the exact wording and that in my case I was only obliged to give one month's notice which didn't need to run from any specific day. The letting agent ended up agreeing with me and in fact paid back some additional money when the property was re let before the end of my notice period (as I had advised he would need to do if they let the property whilst I still technically had a right to be in it).
Worked for me!
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PurpleMoonlight
1,329 posts
26 months
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A periodical tenancy is a series of short fixed term tenancies depending on the frequency of the rent payments, eg a weeks tenancy or a months tenancy. From the tenants perspective the legal minimum notice to bring the periodical tenancy to an end is one full short fixed term tenancy, subject to a minimum of 4 weeks.
This of course does not prohibit the landlord voluntarily accepting a shorter period.
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superlightr
6,879 posts
132 months
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The law is more weighted in favour of the tenant. The landlord has a minimum requirement to give notice correctly. It sounds like he has. Full stop.
The tenant is also required to give the correct notice. He hasnt and is moaning its unfair.
If you dont like the regulations then change the law. The penalties for Landlords getting matters wrong with regard to rented property are massive - what sort of penalties are there for tenants? none.
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5678
5,021 posts
96 months
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NiceCupOfTea said: This happened to me when I moved out of my last rented place into a place we had bought. We had an overlap of nearly a month and I was furious to discover that the prick had been in decorating in that time while we still had stuff there. As far as I was concerned, I was paying him rent so he should have stayed the hell out without notice. This was 10 years ago and I'm still cross! This is pretty much the situation I've just had. I fought them over their claim for most of my deposit and used their illegal entry to the house as the main reason. I won the dispute easily 
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Wings
3,976 posts
84 months
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PurpleMoonlight said: A periodical tenancy is a series of short fixed term tenancies depending on the frequency of the rent payments, eg a weeks tenancy or a months tenancy. From the tenants perspective the legal minimum notice to bring the periodical tenancy to an end is one full short fixed term tenancy, subject to a minimum of 4 weeks.
This of course does not prohibit the landlord voluntarily accepting a shorter period. ^^^^Agree, and where the tenancy becomes a periodic tenancy, then the day that the Notice should be dated from, is the day in the week/month the rental payment is made. So even where the original Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement was dated, started at, in a Periodic Tenancy it is the date the rental payment is made, since the tenancy is either a new weekly or monthly tenancy/agreement. There is a case law covering this.
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Air Support
383 posts
78 months
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OP The following government guidance supports your position re the notice period and when it should run from after the shorthold term has expired (easily found via Google):
Assured and Assured Shorthold Tenancies A guide for tenants – Department for Communities and Local Government:
“5.1 What happens when a shorthold tenancy comes to the end of a fixed term? When a shorthold tenancy comes to the end of the fixed term, the landlord can end the tenancy but must have given two months’ notice that he or she requires possession (see sections 6.1 to 6.5). If the landlord agrees a replacement tenancy, it will automatically be on shorthold terms unless he or she agrees to set up a replacement tenancy on an assured basis (see section 3.3). If the landlord agrees a replacement tenancy, it can either be for a fixed term or run on a periodic basis – called a contractual periodic tenancy. If the landlord grants you a replacement shorthold tenancy on a fixed term basis, he or she will only be able to regain possession during the fixed term on one of grounds for possession 2, 8, 10 to 15 or 17 in Appendix C. Once the fixed term has ended, the landlord will be able to regain possession provided he or she has given you two months’ notice. If the landlord grants you a replacement shorthold tenancy on a contractual periodic basis, he or she will be able to regain possession at any time provided that two months’ notice that possession is required has been given.
If the landlord does nothing, the tenancy will automatically run on from one rent period to the next on the same terms as the preceding fixed term shorthold tenancy – called a statutory periodic tenancy. The tenancy will continue to run on this basis until you leave, the landlord replaces the tenancy, or the landlord requires possession of the property.”
And: Notice that you must leave - a brief guide for landlords and tenants Department for Communities and Local Government:
“Notice by tenants What must a tenant do if he or she wants to give up his or her tenancy? There is no provision in existing legislation requiring a tenant to give notice to their landlord should they wish to end the tenancy. A tenant's obligation to give notice, the amount of notice they need to give and the way in which this notice is served, is a matter for the landlord and the tenant to agree between them at the outset of the tenancy and such information should be included in a written tenancy agreement.
This might include the landlord's willingness to allow the tenant to find a new tenant to replace them. Although the landlord will still bear the responsibility for ensuring they are a suitable replacement. This can be done by carrying out a credit check and following up any references provided. However, if the tenant has a fixed term tenancy, this would be regarded in law as a contract and therefore the tenant may only give up his or her tenancy before the end of the fixed term if the landlord agrees or if the agreement says he or she can (this does not apply to protected shorthold tenancies: see housing booklet Regulated Tenancies). This could be by way of a break clause that should benefit the tenant as well as the landlord. Otherwise, it is likely to be an unfair term as per the provisions of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts regulations 1999.
If neither the terms of a fixed term tenancy, nor the landlord, allow the tenant to end the arrangement early, the tenant is likely to be contractually responsible for ensuring that rent is paid for the remainder of the fixed term. Landlords should be aware that they cannot necessarily expect compensation for the whole term's rent if the tenant leaves early: there is also a responsibility on the landlord in this situation to try to cover his or her losses in other ways, notably by trying to re-let the accommodation. Also, on some occasions, a tenant might have good cause for ending the agreement early. Landlords and tenants in such circumstances should seek legal advice.
If the tenant is a periodic tenant, any notice they must give, its length and how it should be served, will be at the discretion of the landlord. Any notice given by the tenant should reasonably bring the tenancy to an end at the end of a complete period of the tenancy (for example, at the end of a month, if the tenancy is by the month) although this requirement should be stated clearly in the tenancy agreement. If the tenancy agreement is silent on any of the above issues, this is likely to be regarded as the tenant having been given no obligation to provide notice.”
Key points from this are ('cos I can't get the formatting working) that the tenancy reverts to a statutory periodic tenancy (as already stated) and that there is no specific requirement in legislation as to how and when the tenant has to give notice - these need to be defined in the contract terms to be enforceable. Best practice would be to run from the rent date but this is not a requirement under legislation and if it's not in the agreement you have a good case to make.
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liller
356 posts
38 months
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OP - you didn't give the LL one months notice. He served you the correct notice but you haven't given him the required one months notice so why should he refund your rent and let you leave early.
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garyhun
13,992 posts
97 months
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AirSupport - you are wrong.
When the contract goes periodic the terms of the original AST carry over. Thus any notice has to be from the start of the contract period as laid out in the AST. A month is not from the moment notice is given, it is from the date set out in the AST
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Air Support
383 posts
78 months
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garyhun said: AirSupport - you are wrong.
When the contract goes periodic the terms of the original AST carry over. Thus any notice has to be from the start of the contract period as laid out in the AST. A month is not from the moment notice is given, it is from the date set out in the AST The guidance I quoted says different. Your position is only the case if expressly defined in the agreement. My solicitor agreed with me when I had a similar situation as in the end did the letting agent. Perhaps you'd like to show some evidence to prove otherwise.
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