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matchmaker
Original Poster
3,387 posts
70 months
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s2sol
601 posts
41 months
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An average of £12k pa over a fleet of substantially in excess of 1200 vehicles doesn't seem inordinately bad?
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jith
1,775 posts
85 months
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"'High labour costs'
One incident in 2007 in the Lothian and Borders force area, involving a BMW, cost £5,221.53.
The vehicle had been run after it was misfuelled, meaning it needed a completely new fuel system, tank, new fuel lines and injectors."
Absolute, utter bloody nonsense!!
It makes not one jot of difference what type of fuel was wrongly installed. There is no way it is necessary to renew the fuel pump, tank and lines. You just simply flush them through and pour in the correct fuel.
There is only the slightest possibility that it would have done any damage to the injectors. The main reason for this is that on modern engines, the injection systems on diesels and petrols are now so similar they can handle a problem like this without serious damage.
J
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Milky Joe
3,851 posts
74 months
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matchmaker said: If PHers can't even fill their own vehicles correcty why do you expect the police to be able to do it? Yes it is pratish, but if you drive lots of different vehicles and work around the clock it's going to happen.
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Frix
619 posts
61 months
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Yawn. Thread that has been done to death but keeps resurfacing every time a new FOI request is submitted. Yawn.
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Edinburger
2,509 posts
38 months
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jith said: "'High labour costs'
One incident in 2007 in the Lothian and Borders force area, involving a BMW, cost £5,221.53.
The vehicle had been run after it was misfuelled, meaning it needed a completely new fuel system, tank, new fuel lines and injectors."
Absolute, utter bloody nonsense!!
It makes not one jot of difference what type of fuel was wrongly installed. There is no way it is necessary to renew the fuel pump, tank and lines. You just simply flush them through and pour in the correct fuel.
There is only the slightest possibility that it would have done any damage to the injectors. The main reason for this is that on modern engines, the injection systems on diesels and petrols are now so similar they can handle a problem like this without serious damage.
J I agree, it just needs a flush and new filter. It's easy to mis-fuel - I should know as I've done it twice (in an A4 and then a 5 Series) and each time it's been £30 for filter plus ~£400 labour. Why oh why don't they have square pumps for one fuel and round for the other, or something along those lines?
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welshjohn
722 posts
51 months
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Why do they need to change the fuel system if it's run with the wrong fuel.Can it not be just cleaned out?
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oldsoak
5,587 posts
72 months
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Once upon a time it was virtually impossible to 'Mis-fuel' because the pump nozzles were designed to fit only the fuel caps of whatever fuel the vehicle used. Be it leaded (big bore nozzle), Unleaded (small smooth bore nozzle) or Derv smaller bore than Leaded but a slightly larger nozzle than unleaded with ridges on the underside making it physically too big to fit into an unleaded tank cap guide.
People knew that the unleaded nozzles were the smooth bore ones and derv had the ridges. The terminally stupid however, could still put unleaded into derv tanks, so they put a colour coding on the Nozzle grip...green for unleaded and black for derv. Car manufacturers followed this trend by colour coding the fuel tank nozzle guides similarly.
These days pump nozzles are almost identical in bore size and the ridges on the derv nozzles are all but gone and will fit into an unleaded cap...the colour coding is still there and they've also added the words "Derv" and "Unleaded" to the pump handle covers to further differentiate between the two and STILL we have muppets who cross fuel...
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blondini
366 posts
48 months
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[quote=jithIt makes not one jot of difference what type of fuel was wrongly installed. There is no way it is necessary to renew the fuel pump, tank and lines. You just simply flush them through and pour in the correct fuel.
There is only the slightest possibility that it would have done any damage to the injectors. The main reason for this is that on modern engines, the injection systems on diesels and petrols are now so similar they can handle a problem like this without serious damage.
J
[/quote]
I thought the lack of lubricity of petrol caused damage to diesel high pressure pumps leading to metal particles in the system. The fuel injection pressures on modern diesels are immense compared to petrol.
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14-7
5,745 posts
61 months
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oldsoak said: he colour coding is still there and they've also added the words "Derv" and "Unleaded" to the pump handle covers to further differentiate between the two and STILL we have muppets who cross fuel... I've come across several places lately where all the nozzles have all been one colour although they have still said diesel/petrol but only by the nozzle not on it. Once or twice I've been stood fuelling up only to think s  t I've picked the wrong one up because it was green.
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crocodile tears
755 posts
16 months
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old news.. And it appears to happen to everyone 'phers' and all
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y2blade
46,914 posts
85 months
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jith
1,775 posts
85 months
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blondini said: [quote=jithIt makes not one jot of difference what type of fuel was wrongly installed. There is no way it is necessary to renew the fuel pump, tank and lines. You just simply flush them through and pour in the correct fuel.
There is only the slightest possibility that it would have done any damage to the injectors. The main reason for this is that on modern engines, the injection systems on diesels and petrols are now so similar they can handle a problem like this without serious damage.
J I thought the lack of lubricity of petrol caused damage to diesel high pressure pumps leading to metal particles in the system. The fuel injection pressures on modern diesels are immense compared to petrol. The FSi petrol systems run at extremely high pressures too. You have to understand that when the wrong fuel reaches the injectors and subsequently the engine, the vehicle will only run for a matter of seconds before it stalls. At this point the dawning of what you have done usually sinks in with a slow horror! I have never had a car in the workshop where this has caused serious damage, simply because the vehicle stops and will not start. J
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Deva Link
26,934 posts
115 months
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oldsoak said: These days pump nozzles are almost identical in bore size and the ridges on the derv nozzles are all but gone and will fit into an unleaded cap... No they won't.
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blondini
366 posts
48 months
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jith said: The FSi petrol systems run at extremely high pressures too.
You have to understand that when the wrong fuel reaches the injectors and subsequently the engine, the vehicle will only run for a matter of seconds before it stalls. At this point the dawning of what you have done usually sinks in with a slow horror!
I have never had a car in the workshop where this has caused serious damage, simply because the vehicle stops and will not start.
J What sort of pressures do FSi petrol systems run at? Yes I do understand that the engine will stop running when the wrong fuel reaches the injectors, but fuel can circulate as soon as the 'ignition' is switched on and there is a risk of damage before the engine is even started. http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-env...
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Pontoneer
2,705 posts
56 months
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oldsoak said: People knew that the unleaded nozzles were the smooth bore ones and derv had the ridges. The terminally stupid however, could still put unleaded into derv tanks, While I have always considered myself reasonably knowledgeable about cars etc , I can't say that I ever noticed these differences in nozzles . There used to be petrol pumps ranging from two star to five star ( two star went in the lawnmower and five star went in the cars ) . Diesel was for trucks and came out of a nozzle so big that it would fill a car tank in seconds ; the Diesel pumps were usually well away from the petrol ones so little chance of mistakes . It was only later when multi fuel pumps came in that mistakes became more likely ; combined with cars starting to run on truck fuel  I have never misfuelled a vehicle myself , although I have intentionally put a little petrol in a Diesel Land Rover during cold weather to prevent waxing .
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oldsoak
5,587 posts
72 months
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Deva Link said: No they won't. Then how the Sam Hill do folks manage to put derv into an unleaded vehicle? Do tell.
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Deva Link
26,934 posts
115 months
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oldsoak said: Then how the Sam Hill do folks manage to put derv into an unleaded vehicle?
Do tell. I'm not aware they do - the problem is the other way around.
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wolf1
2,381 posts
120 months
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jith said: "'High labour costs'
One incident in 2007 in the Lothian and Borders force area, involving a BMW, cost £5,221.53.
The vehicle had been run after it was misfuelled, meaning it needed a completely new fuel system, tank, new fuel lines and injectors."
Absolute, utter bloody nonsense!!
It makes not one jot of difference what type of fuel was wrongly installed. There is no way it is necessary to renew the fuel pump, tank and lines. You just simply flush them through and pour in the correct fuel.
There is only the slightest possibility that it would have done any damage to the injectors. The main reason for this is that on modern engines, the injection systems on diesels and petrols are now so similar they can handle a problem like this without serious damage.
J If that vehicle is under warranty then the manufacturer can and often does demand replacement of the fuel system after a missfuel or they void the warranty. More than likely BMW were made aware of the missfuel and hence the reason why it was done.
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ED209
2,993 posts
114 months
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I have put petrol in diesel job cars twice, not proud of it but sometimes when filling up at 6.30am on a morning when you have been driving around all night your brain isnt exactly functioning at its best. The problem is compounded when you run a fleet of cars which are both petrol and diesel.
(first time i did a full tank but realised before i started/drove off, second time i realised after putting 2 litres in an empty tank, just filled the rest with diesel and it was right as rain)
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