Gatso and police car
Discussion
I too can confirm traffic lights don't go green just cause there is an emergancy vehicle waiting!!!!
The local fire station however is next to a busy traffic light control junction. If they get a shout all the junction lights in one direction go green to clear the dual carriageway plus the next couple of junctions. This is controlled by a computer at the station.
The local fire station however is next to a busy traffic light control junction. If they get a shout all the junction lights in one direction go green to clear the dual carriageway plus the next couple of junctions. This is controlled by a computer at the station.
daz3210 said:
jaf01uk said:
daz3210 said:
How do they do this?
In the UK there are laws about permitted people passing a red light. And the emergency services are not actually included, so I doubt this is actually the case.
Right I'm going to bite this time, I have seen you mention this before but resisted, please tell us what you mean as I was trained and pass that training to others within the ambulance service in Scotland that we have an exemption in law to treat a red light as a stop and give way as do the other emergency services? In the UK there are laws about permitted people passing a red light. And the emergency services are not actually included, so I doubt this is actually the case.
Gary
The story goes that I was on an Advanced Driving course arranged by West Yorkshire Police (circa 1993). The officers were telling us about the rules that they as Police Response drivers have to obey.
The rules were explained that an Officer may not legally pass a red light, but the rules that West Yorkshire at least) apply are that they do pass red lights if two officers agree that it is safe to do so (hence stop/slow, check, agree clear, proceed). If in the course of doing this there is an accident, the driver is open to prosecution for potentially dangerous driving etc. We told that the same applies for the other emergency services.
It was said that the problem being experienced was at the time more and more Police Motorcyclists were being put on the road, and particularly if alone rather than in a pair there was no second officer to make the agreement.
He did tell us that a Postman delivering a declaration of war could however ignore the red light.
Gary
jaf01uk said:
daz3210 said:
jaf01uk said:
daz3210 said:
How do they do this?
In the UK there are laws about permitted people passing a red light. And the emergency services are not actually included, so I doubt this is actually the case.
Right I'm going to bite this time, I have seen you mention this before but resisted, please tell us what you mean as I was trained and pass that training to others within the ambulance service in Scotland that we have an exemption in law to treat a red light as a stop and give way as do the other emergency services? In the UK there are laws about permitted people passing a red light. And the emergency services are not actually included, so I doubt this is actually the case.
Gary
The story goes that I was on an Advanced Driving course arranged by West Yorkshire Police (circa 1993). The officers were telling us about the rules that they as Police Response drivers have to obey.
The rules were explained that an Officer may not legally pass a red light, but the rules that West Yorkshire at least) apply are that they do pass red lights if two officers agree that it is safe to do so (hence stop/slow, check, agree clear, proceed). If in the course of doing this there is an accident, the driver is open to prosecution for potentially dangerous driving etc. We told that the same applies for the other emergency services.
It was said that the problem being experienced was at the time more and more Police Motorcyclists were being put on the road, and particularly if alone rather than in a pair there was no second officer to make the agreement.
He did tell us that a Postman delivering a declaration of war could however ignore the red light.
Gary
So if that's the case you just declared the course tosh and said it was a waste of 8 weeks times 3 hours a week.
Thanks for that.
daz3210 said:
Well if it was someone pulling a chain, it was a police training sergeant from West Yorkshire Police, delivering a road safety course organised to improve road safety.
So if that's the case you just declared the course tosh and said it was a waste of 8 weeks times 3 hours a week.
Thanks for that.
I think you can rest assured that someone was pulling your chain (or weren't what they claimed they were). If you were told what you claim you were then the course was indeed (in that part at least) "tosh".So if that's the case you just declared the course tosh and said it was a waste of 8 weeks times 3 hours a week.
Thanks for that.
Others have already posted the law about emergency service vehicles passing red lights and there is no mention of a second person to approve the manoeuvre.
Cat
daz3210 said:
I am not sure that you are correct.
There are a set of traffic lights bear us that if I flash the headlights on approach they seem to green almost immediately. If I don't I often have to wait a prolonged period.
Plenty of lights have an induction loop in the road - they detect your vehicle approaching and go green. Flashing your lights or not makes no difference whatsoever though.There are a set of traffic lights bear us that if I flash the headlights on approach they seem to green almost immediately. If I don't I often have to wait a prolonged period.
contracttor said:
The other day I was heading towards a gatso that faces me.
If it is on your side of the road and facing you, it wont flash.The Gatso on the A3 between Roehampton Lane and the Robin Hood Roundabout was notorious for being triggered by traffic on the other (uphill) carriageway (!).
Streaky
Cat said:
daz3210 said:
Well if it was someone pulling a chain, it was a police training sergeant from West Yorkshire Police, delivering a road safety course organised to improve road safety.
So if that's the case you just declared the course tosh and said it was a waste of 8 weeks times 3 hours a week.
Thanks for that.
I think you can rest assured that someone was pulling your chain (or weren't what they claimed they were). If you were told what you claim you were then the course was indeed (in that part at least) "tosh".So if that's the case you just declared the course tosh and said it was a waste of 8 weeks times 3 hours a week.
Thanks for that.
Others have already posted the law about emergency service vehicles passing red lights and there is no mention of a second person to approve the manoeuvre.
Cat
daz3210 said:
Thats a pretty serious accusation there, saying Police officers weren't Police officers. They were in uniform, the course was held at the local Fire Station, they arrived in 'traffic' cars. They were accompanied by representatives of the local IAM group. I'm pretty confident myself they were who they claimed to be!
Doesn't detract from the fact that the information they appear to have provided was incorrect. SS2. said:
daz3210 said:
Thats a pretty serious accusation there, saying Police officers weren't Police officers. They were in uniform, the course was held at the local Fire Station, they arrived in 'traffic' cars. They were accompanied by representatives of the local IAM group. I'm pretty confident myself they were who they claimed to be!
Doesn't detract from the fact that the information they appear to have provided was incorrect. And the rules as stated by others do say that you cannot simply ignore the signal, but that you should proceed such that others do not have to take avoiding action to prevent an accident.
Tell me, what happens if one of your drivers passes a red light and hits a car? (apart from the fact that he has an accident I mean) Would he be disciplined? Prosecuted?
daz3210 said:
But was it entirely incorrect? The manual quoted was 2002 IIRC. The course from which this information was gained was before this.
The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 is not a 'manual' - it is a legislative provision.Regardless, the exemption for emergency services pre-dates the 2002 Regulations anyway.
daz3210 said:
And the rules as stated by others do say that you cannot simply ignore the signal, but that you should proceed such that others do not have to take avoiding action to prevent an accident.
Yes, but it does disprove your claim that UK emergency services 'are not actually included' within red light exemptions.daz3210 said:
Tell me, what happens if one of your drivers passes a red light and hits a car? (apart from the fact that he has an accident I mean) Would he be disciplined? Prosecuted?
Our drivers are not employed by any of the emergency services, so it is unlikely they would be able to seek protection from the exemption provided by the Regulations.daz3210 said:
Thats a pretty serious accusation there, saying Police officers weren't Police officers. They were in uniform, the course was held at the local Fire Station, they arrived in 'traffic' cars. They were accompanied by representatives of the local IAM group. I'm pretty confident myself they were who they claimed to be!
You're right, that is a pretty serious accusation I take it back 
. The fact remains, however, that if they told you that the law prevented them from passing a red light whilst single crewed, then it was nonsense (even 20 years ago). daz3210 said:
Tell me, what happens if one of your drivers passes a red light and hits a car? (apart from the fact that he has an accident I mean) Would he be disciplined? Prosecuted?
Almost certainly both - but it still doesn't mean they need a second person to tell them it's OK. Cat
4keymonsta said:
This thread needs a whoosh
Also..
Either English isn't your strong point or you have a very short attention span.Also..
contracttor said:
The other day I was heading towards a gatso that faces me.
If it is on your side of the road and facing you, it wont flash.I take back what I said above as I can see why you said it now.
The camera is on an island in the middle of the road and the police car was going in the opposite direction to me.
Edited by contracttor on Thursday 17th May 13:48
djt100 said:
I can say 100% that lights do not change to green for Ambulances. I know this because going through a set to allow one to pass got cost me 3 points and £80. 
Did you go to court?Surely there is some leeway if it can be seen that this was the reason and you simply moved over the line to make room. Or did you shoot through fully?
.
i think part of the problem here is of semantics
emergency vehicles are not exempt from obeying red lights , but what the 'exemption' does is modify the meaning of the red light from 'STOP' into 'GIVE WAY' , hence the reason some organisation, - particularly fire services, adopt a a rule which says you come to a stop and then 'peep and creep ' with lights and noise until all the traffic with the green light stops ... while other organisations seem to be happy to let their drivers blast through red lights until it all goes wrong ...
emergency vehicles are not exempt from obeying red lights , but what the 'exemption' does is modify the meaning of the red light from 'STOP' into 'GIVE WAY' , hence the reason some organisation, - particularly fire services, adopt a a rule which says you come to a stop and then 'peep and creep ' with lights and noise until all the traffic with the green light stops ... while other organisations seem to be happy to let their drivers blast through red lights until it all goes wrong ...
daz3210 said:
How do they do this?
In the UK there are laws about permitted people passing a red light. And the emergency services are not actually included, so I doubt this is actually the case.
In the UK there are laws about permitted people passing a red light. And the emergency services are not actually included, so I doubt this is actually the case.
tvrgit said:
No I am not thinking of microphones - that is even more ridiculous.
I know exactly what I am thinking of. There are no sensors for headlights or emergency beacons on UK traffic signals. Myth. Busted.
We don't have sensors on the actual vehicle's, but we can control traffic lights from some ambulance stations.I know exactly what I am thinking of. There are no sensors for headlights or emergency beacons on UK traffic signals. Myth. Busted.
We've got a local station (Rayleigh weir) right on a big roundabout (along the A127) which has 8 sets of traffic lights. On our station we have a button we can press which sets all lights on the roudabout to green (so the traffic that's on it, can get off), and all lights approaching the roundabout to red.
So when we go out on an emergency no traffic can go on the roundabout (and block it up) and all the traffic on the roundabout can clear quickly. And it works quite good.
Medic-one said:
We don't have sensors on the actual vehicle's, but we can control traffic lights from some ambulance stations.
We've got a local station (Rayleigh weir) right on a big roundabout (along the A127) which has 8 sets of traffic lights. On our station we have a button we can press which sets all lights on the roudabout to green (so the traffic that's on it, can get off), and all lights approaching the roundabout to red.
So when we go out on an emergency no traffic can go on the roundabout (and block it up) and all the traffic on the roundabout can clear quickly. And it works quite good.
The UTC system I was involved in in 1980 had 3 emergemcy "green waves" similar to what you describe. There was a brand new fire station built on the edge of an area signal system, and when they were leaving on a job, they pressed button 1, 2 or 3 depending if they were going north, south or east (there were no signals to the west). It's still there and working, as far as I know.We've got a local station (Rayleigh weir) right on a big roundabout (along the A127) which has 8 sets of traffic lights. On our station we have a button we can press which sets all lights on the roudabout to green (so the traffic that's on it, can get off), and all lights approaching the roundabout to red.
So when we go out on an emergency no traffic can go on the roundabout (and block it up) and all the traffic on the roundabout can clear quickly. And it works quite good.
As you say, the function wasn't to let the fire engine through the red light (because they could go through anyway) it was to make sure that any queues already blocking the road, were cleared before they got there.
Point is, though, that's nothing to do with sensors that recognise individual emergency vehicles.
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