Mum got an NIP, 40 in a 30 but the letter is LATE
Discussion
Moogle said:
I do appreciate your help, just for balance I never said the US doesn't have it's own issues, this much is glaringly obvious to me in the month and a half I've been here however, perhaps I should clarify, in the specifics of traffic/road law I have significantly more rights here to defend myself than I do in the UK, also the entire system here (in regards to traffic/road laws) isn't quite obviously engineered to generate profit with little regard for ACTUAL road safety....
I have no criticism of you choosing to leave the country. Good luck to you. The impression I got from your posts is that you are exhorting anyone who could leave, also to do so. I have much criticism for my country. I choose to stay. I can live with different choices but the suggestion mine is a poor one isn't welcome.On the point of law, ferrrariF50lover did state that your mother has to prove, on balance, that the NIP was not delivered within 14 days. He also stated that that this can be proved by sending a sworn statement to that effect to the CPS. It might work. It might not. The prosecution may expect your mother to attend court and convince the magistrates that the NIP was served out of time. If the defendant has to prove his defence it is in my view better that they attend court so that they can give evidence orally.
Sending a sworn witness statement as suggested may result in the CPS dropping the charge but they do not have to accept the written statement. If they don't your mother should be prepared to go to court with a convincing oral statement of how she can be sure the NIP was not delivered in time and be prepared to be cross examined to test the reliability of her statement.
Contemporaneous notes can help. Write down what has happened as soon as possible after the event so she can refer back to them rather than relying on memory. If someone else witnessed the delivery that can help.
[quote=Moogle]PistonHeaders! Once again if I may call on your expertise. Here are the details.
- My notice arrived more than 14 days after the alleged offence. Is it still valid?
The NIP is initially issued and posted to the registered owner/keeper, according to the details held by the DVLA, within 14 days of the alleged offence. Postal delay will not invalidate service.
As the offence was committed on the 25 Apr and the noticed served on 02 May then this is within the 14 days and even assuming Royal Mail took 5 days to deliver it, it would still be within 14 days. As per the above "Postal delay will not invalidate service" so as long as it is issued within the 14 days then surely it is valid.
- My notice arrived more than 14 days after the alleged offence. Is it still valid?
The NIP is initially issued and posted to the registered owner/keeper, according to the details held by the DVLA, within 14 days of the alleged offence. Postal delay will not invalidate service.
As the offence was committed on the 25 Apr and the noticed served on 02 May then this is within the 14 days and even assuming Royal Mail took 5 days to deliver it, it would still be within 14 days. As per the above "Postal delay will not invalidate service" so as long as it is issued within the 14 days then surely it is valid.
SS2. said:
zasker said:
As per the above "Postal delay will not invalidate service" so as long as it is issued within the 14 days then surely it is valid.
Whilst that's a myth which the SCPs seem intent on perpetuating, it's one which this thread has shown to have been busted..WhereamI said:
Of course she could just accept her guilt, pay the fine and move on without trying to wriggle out on a technicality. A guess that since you rant about the British justice system you've yet to get the wrong side of the US one, good luck to you if you do.
Just because (most) other places are more oppressive is no reason to tolerate even the smallest oppressive act by the state...If our servants fail to serve they should be beaten soundly.
SS2. said:
zasker said:
As per the above "Postal delay will not invalidate service" so as long as it is issued within the 14 days then surely it is valid.
Whilst that's a myth which the SCPs seem intent on perpetuating, it's one which this thread has shown to have been busted..SS2. said:
zasker said:
As per the above "Postal delay will not invalidate service" so as long as it is issued within the 14 days then surely it is valid.
Whilst that's a myth which the SCPs seem intent on perpetuating, it's one which this thread has shown to have been busted..With the letter dated well inside the time limit and no strike or weather issues to delay delivery I would expect the Mags to say they think it likely it was delivered in time.
What does the OPs Mum do then? I know someone, pillar of the community etc etc, who went to the high court with a case where they felt their word should have been enough. It wasn't.
Apache said:
SS2. said:
Apache said:
Unless they have photographic evidence I'd bin it..
I wouldn't - that would seem like a fairly sure fire way to acquire 6 points..2) Work colleague sounds like a really messy character.
Either way ...
Streaky
streaky said:
Apache said:
SS2. said:
Apache said:
Unless they have photographic evidence I'd bin it..
I wouldn't - that would seem like a fairly sure fire way to acquire 6 points..2) Work colleague sounds like a really messy character.
Either way ...
Streaky
2) not really...he used the bin
blueg33 said:
Courts have already found that Service means delivery to the keepers address, NOT the day it was posted. See the Gidden case referenced at the beginning of the thread.
Gidden only won because the NIP was sent out on the last day possible and there was a postal strike on. So it wasn't reasonable to assume that it would be delivered in time. So long as its sent with a few days to spare and there are no special circumstances the Gidden precedent isn't going to get you anywhere.fluffnik said:
If our servants fail to serve they should be beaten soundly.
If a servant had failed I might agree, but it looks like they sent it in enough time and did everything they should, it's just one person's word that it arrived late. It would hardly be credible to have a system where simply claiming that you didn't get the piece of paper for a few days lets you off the offence.WhereamI said:
fluffnik said:
If our servants fail to serve they should be beaten soundly.
If a servant had failed I might agree, but it looks like they sent it in enough time and did everything they should, it's just one person's word that it arrived late. It would hardly be credible to have a system where simply claiming that you didn't get the piece of paper for a few days lets you off the offence.Any public servant who says different is quite frankly utterly unfit...
WhereamI said:
It would hardly be credible to have a system where simply claiming that you didn't get the piece of paper for a few days lets you off the offence.
So how late can it arrive and still be acceptable? a week, a month, a year, ten years? - there has to be a cut-off point and the lawmakers have decided that is 14 days. They make the rules, rules that we are supposed to follow and so should they.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff