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Rubin215

Original Poster:

1,415 posts

25 months

[news] 
Thursday 7th June 2012 quote quote all
Last year, my wife's car was insured though Kwik Fit.

When her renewal came through, she wrote to them telling them not to renew as we were selling the car and cancelled the direct debit at the bank.
Car was sold the day after the policy expired (deposit taken previously, but remainder and paperwork done on that day) and had been parked off road for the previous week anyway.

Kwik fit then wrote to ask why the direct debit had been cancelled.
I telephoned and told them that the car was sold and the policy was not being renewed; the woman I spoke to seemed quite happy with this.

Another letter arrived today telling us the policy is now in arrears and will be cancelled if we don't pay the amount outstanding (£40 ish).

Mrs 215 then phoned them to sort things out, only to be told that they had never received her letter (surprise surprise...) so the policy had been renewed automatically and now if she wants to cancel it she is due both the amount outstanding plus cancellation charges - £142.18 in total!

Threat was made on the phone that if this amount wasn't paid it would be passed on to a debt recovery service...

So, legal people of PH, where do we stand?

Snowboy

3,236 posts

20 months

[news] 
Thursday 7th June 2012 quote quote all
Sounds like you did everything right.
Tell them to find the phone record of when you cancelled the policy.

I would expect that you should be able to ask to speak to a grown up, and when you explain it to them they will just cancel everything and sort it all out.


Rubin215

Original Poster:

1,415 posts

25 months

[news] 
Thursday 7th June 2012 quote quote all
Snowboy said:
Sounds like you did everything right.
Tell them to find the phone record of when you cancelled the policy.
The point is that they were told not to renew in the first place by letter, which they now claim they never received.

Jasandjules

45,414 posts

98 months

[news] 
Thursday 7th June 2012 quote quote all
Rubin215 said:
The point is that they were told not to renew in the first place by letter, which they now claim they never received.
You also say that your wife called them and said not to renew?

Furthermore, is it less than 14 days since the "inception"?

pitmansboots

1,058 posts

56 months

[news] 
Thursday 7th June 2012 quote quote all
If she doesn't pay the policy will be cancelled; the insurers said that in their communication.
The problem comes when they point out that in accepting the first policy with an insurer they will get you to agree to automatic renewal by default if you do not opt out.
You will most likely find this is the case. You will have to read the terms and conditions of her first policy very carefully to see what the auto-renewal clause says.
Personally, I think it is a rip-off and always opt out. Even when doing this you will find insurers conveniently overlook your opt out and still auto-renew. Quite why BBC Watchdog don't take this up is a mystery.

Edited to add. The wife's insurance was taken out with a company that sounds like a wood chopping implement. Opted out of auto-renewal. Lo and behold, in came an auto renew letter this year. Didn't take the policy offered. Looked around and hey presto, reinsured with the same company for less premium than offered in the auto renewal.

When asked why auto renewal was offered the lady on the phone says its illegal to own a car that isn't insured. Not only do they scam you but they lie doing it too.

Edited by pitmansboots on Thursday 7th June 14:17

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OllieC

2,828 posts

83 months

[news] 
Thursday 7th June 2012 quote quote all
Do Kwik Fit do anything right ?

pitmansboots

1,058 posts

56 months

[news] 
Thursday 7th June 2012 quote quote all
Not in my experience.

Ordered some run-flat tyres and they came as not run-flat. They did however offer to fit those to my wife's car that has no spare; how kind.

If they did what I said they would have a salesman with the back of his trousers showing the profile of 4 tyres sticking out of his arse. I should have known better.

Jasandjules

45,414 posts

98 months

[news] 
Thursday 7th June 2012 quote quote all
pitmansboots said:
The problem comes when they point out that in accepting the first policy with an insurer they will get you to agree to automatic renewal by default if you do not opt out.
Which I believe is unenforcable - basic contract law says otherwise - you can not agree to something by silence.

Unless somewhere there is a specific insurance exemption, but it's been a while since I read an insurance law book and I don't recall seeing one.

pitmansboots

1,058 posts

56 months

[news] 
Thursday 7th June 2012 quote quote all
Jasandjules said:
pitmansboots said:
The problem comes when they point out that in accepting the first policy with an insurer they will get you to agree to automatic renewal by default if you do not opt out.
Which I believe is unenforcable - basic contract law says otherwise - you can not agree to something by silence.

Unless somewhere there is a specific insurance exemption, but it's been a while since I read an insurance law book and I don't recall seeing one.
The terms are quite clear and you agree to them quite actively as I understand it.

swerni

19,871 posts

79 months

[news] 
Thursday 7th June 2012 quote quote all
pitmansboots said:
Not in my experience.

Ordered some run-flat tyres and they came as not run-flat. They did however offer to fit those to my wife's car that has no spare; how kind.

If they did what I said they would have a salesman with the back of his trousers showing the profile of 4 tyres sticking out of his arse. I should have known better.
They did you a favor.


wink

Who me ?

3,863 posts

81 months

[news] 
Thursday 7th June 2012 quote quote all
There has been legislation against similar in the telecomms market -notably because of the actions of BT & Virgin in effecting another year contract if the user did not affect new T & C. So ,could this also apply to the world of insurance ?

Jasandjules

45,414 posts

98 months

[news] 
Thursday 7th June 2012 quote quote all
pitmansboots said:
The terms are quite clear and you agree to them quite actively as I understand it.
No, you can not create a new contract by silence.

It is a new contract when the insurance renews. As I said, unless there is an exception then this is invalid.

Rubin215

Original Poster:

1,415 posts

25 months

[news] 
Friday 8th June 2012 quote quote all
So an invoice for £142 arrived today.

It's not getting paid...

Stoofa

352 posts

37 months

[news] 
Friday 8th June 2012 quote quote all
I wouldn't just ignore. Debts of far less have been passed on to debt collection agencies.

BonzoG

1,312 posts

83 months

[news] 
Friday 8th June 2012 quote quote all
What can a debt collection agency do whilst the debt is in dispute? Or, for that matter, without a court order?

streaky

18,235 posts

118 months

[news] 
Saturday 9th June 2012 quote quote all
Jasandjules said:
Rubin215 said:
The point is that they were told not to renew in the first place by letter, which they now claim they never received.
You also say that your wife called them and said not to renew?
No, the OP says he called. If the policy was in his wife's name, they might well, and rightly, have ignored his 'instructions'.

Streaky

Edited by streaky on Saturday 9th June 17:04

chriscpritchard

232 posts

34 months

[news] 
Saturday 9th June 2012 quote quote all
streaky said:
No, the OP says he called. If the policy was in his wife's name, they might well, and rightly, ignored his 'instructions'.

Streaky
Ah yes, but they should have informed him of this and not confirmed that it was done.

streaky

18,235 posts

118 months

[news] 
Saturday 9th June 2012 quote quote all
chriscpritchard said:
streaky said:
No, the OP says he called. If the policy was in his wife's name, they might well, and rightly, ignored his 'instructions'.

Streaky
Ah yes, but they should have informed him of this and not confirmed that it was done.
The OP said that the female he spoke to "seemed happy" with the information ... that's not the same as confirming a cancellation.

Regardless, we were not parties to the call, so we don't know exactly what was said on either side. The OP might not have perfect or even good recall, or might simply have paraphrased.

Streaky

Pontoneer

2,554 posts

55 months

[news] 
Saturday 9th June 2012 quote quote all
In the very first post the OP stated that his wife wrote to the company , before the renewal date , instructing them that she did not wish to renew .

This is all she needs to do . The interpretation Act deems that any letter posted has been served ; it is of no matter that they claim not to have received it since , if the matter goes to court , the court will determine that her posting the letter was sufficient , and that the additional telephone calls both from the OP and his wife advising that she did not wish to renew , along with proof of transfer of ownership of the vehicle the day after the original policy expired , should be enough to have any case thrown out .

The company have been told at least three times the cover was not required , the car can be demonstrated to have been sold . One further letter instructing them to stop harassing the OP's wife for payment of a debt that never existed , or the matter will be escalated to the insurance ombudsman , certain consumer TV shows and , ultimately , court should be enough to get them to desist .

hedgefinder

1,427 posts

39 months

[news] 
Saturday 9th June 2012 quote quote all
was the letter sent recorded though?
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