Another Recovery question
Discussion
littleredrooster said:
3. The recovery agent charges fees which are regulated by the gubbermint and, for the most part, are quite fair (IMO). £150-ish for turning out 24/7/365 on demand with the correct equipment and properly trained personnel seems fair to me. Do not, however, be the owner of a fallen-over artic whose lorry needs to be recovered from the embankment of the M1; the fee for this could be eye-watering!
You mean like this http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/2095/regul...Better than the old system where recovery operators seemed to be paid hourly so kept the road/motorway shut longer than necessary or send 7 recovery vehicles to a transit van with 2 wheels off ?
AJS- said:
TPS said:
AJS- said:
Why on earth do people try and defend this sort of blatant corruption, when they're not even getting the backhanders themselves?
Is it blatant corruption though?Take the £150/£250 recovery fee and then take out the diesel used,wear and tear on the vehicle,drivers wage and company overheads that have to be covered by profit.
Pretty blatant to me, someone's getting a backhander somewhere.
I was with the AA so I gave them a call before the police got there to sort out my recovery and get it running as i know they can take a while.
AA answered and said "sorry sir that's not a mechanical breakdown,its an rtc and we do not recover these".
However we can arrange for a company to come out and recover you and will cover the costs now but you will be invoiced the full cost and given 14 days to repay the AA.
I did this and if I could find the paperwork I would tell you the full cost but off the top of my head it was over £100 and probably not far off the £150 the police charge.
Only difference was it got taken to my home which helped block my drive for 4 months while the case went on and on.
The police did want their own recovery to come out but when they found out mine was already on its way and quicker they let it carry on.
All the comments here just seem to relate to cost.
The point I was trying to make, and the guy who started the thread really is what about a bit of good old common sense? At this point I am inclined to say the obvious, we're dealing with plod and there's a lot of empty space inside that helmet!
The point I was trying to make, and the guy who started the thread really is what about a bit of good old common sense? At this point I am inclined to say the obvious, we're dealing with plod and there's a lot of empty space inside that helmet!
The £150 isn't out of the way, it's the taking it 12 miles in the wrong direction then charging storage that gets me. I'm not sure about the £75 bed cleaning - it seems a lot, but if there was oil and stuff all over the place then might be more reasonable. Another £75 for lifting - how are you going to recover a car without lifting it? Presumably this relates to a car so badly stricken it can't roll on it's own wheels, was this the case? Plus £20 a day storage, but why did it take 12 days to get it back?
I know these things cost, but I think they tend to pile the costs on knowing insurance will pay it, and when someone gets stuck with recovering it privately it costs the earth.
For comparison, I put a car in a field once, which involved the "trained personnel" the truck driver from a local garage driving the "specialist equipment" - an old flat bed truck with a winch on the back, across a muddy field and down an embankment, hoisting my 3 wheeled car on, as one of the wheels was off, and then delivering it to my house about 4 miles away. The total cost for this was about £80. This was a few years ago, maybe 1998 or so, so you'd expect costs to have risen, but I would also be sure that these costs have been inflated some.
If not corruption, it could just be a case of massively over complicating things, in a very British way. Really, how much training and specialist equipment do you need to recover a crashed car? Sure sometimes you'll get a mangled, leaking wreckage that needs to be hoisted on with a crane, but most accidents could easily be recovered with a Land Rover or similar, and a tow rope, the car could then either be trailed or trailered to the right location, as opposed to the wrong one. And how much training does that take?
I know these things cost, but I think they tend to pile the costs on knowing insurance will pay it, and when someone gets stuck with recovering it privately it costs the earth.
For comparison, I put a car in a field once, which involved the "trained personnel" the truck driver from a local garage driving the "specialist equipment" - an old flat bed truck with a winch on the back, across a muddy field and down an embankment, hoisting my 3 wheeled car on, as one of the wheels was off, and then delivering it to my house about 4 miles away. The total cost for this was about £80. This was a few years ago, maybe 1998 or so, so you'd expect costs to have risen, but I would also be sure that these costs have been inflated some.
If not corruption, it could just be a case of massively over complicating things, in a very British way. Really, how much training and specialist equipment do you need to recover a crashed car? Sure sometimes you'll get a mangled, leaking wreckage that needs to be hoisted on with a crane, but most accidents could easily be recovered with a Land Rover or similar, and a tow rope, the car could then either be trailed or trailered to the right location, as opposed to the wrong one. And how much training does that take?
AJS- said:
...
If not corruption, it could just be a case of massively over complicating things, in a very British way. Really, how much training and specialist equipment do you need to recover a crashed car? Sure sometimes you'll get a mangled, leaking wreckage that needs to be hoisted on with a crane, but most accidents could easily be recovered with a Land Rover or similar, and a tow rope, the car could then either be trailed or trailered to the right location, as opposed to the wrong one. And how much training does that take?
But you're missing the obvious again - in order to get the Police rota approval, a recovery operator must demonstrate that he can collect any type of broken vehicle from anywhere at any time, not just a lightly damaged car. If this wasn't the case, the Police would have dozens of different operators to deal with depending on how big/badly damaged/how far off the road they were.If not corruption, it could just be a case of massively over complicating things, in a very British way. Really, how much training and specialist equipment do you need to recover a crashed car? Sure sometimes you'll get a mangled, leaking wreckage that needs to be hoisted on with a crane, but most accidents could easily be recovered with a Land Rover or similar, and a tow rope, the car could then either be trailed or trailered to the right location, as opposed to the wrong one. And how much training does that take?
littleredrooster said:
AJS- said:
...
If not corruption, it could just be a case of massively over complicating things, in a very British way. Really, how much training and specialist equipment do you need to recover a crashed car? Sure sometimes you'll get a mangled, leaking wreckage that needs to be hoisted on with a crane, but most accidents could easily be recovered with a Land Rover or similar, and a tow rope, the car could then either be trailed or trailered to the right location, as opposed to the wrong one. And how much training does that take?
But you're missing the obvious again - in order to get the Police rota approval, a recovery operator must demonstrate that he can collect any type of broken vehicle from anywhere at any time, not just a lightly damaged car. If this wasn't the case, the Police would have dozens of different operators to deal with depending on how big/badly damaged/how far off the road they were.If not corruption, it could just be a case of massively over complicating things, in a very British way. Really, how much training and specialist equipment do you need to recover a crashed car? Sure sometimes you'll get a mangled, leaking wreckage that needs to be hoisted on with a crane, but most accidents could easily be recovered with a Land Rover or similar, and a tow rope, the car could then either be trailed or trailered to the right location, as opposed to the wrong one. And how much training does that take?
AJS- said:
littleredrooster said:
AJS- said:
...
If not corruption, it could just be a case of massively over complicating things, in a very British way. Really, how much training and specialist equipment do you need to recover a crashed car? Sure sometimes you'll get a mangled, leaking wreckage that needs to be hoisted on with a crane, but most accidents could easily be recovered with a Land Rover or similar, and a tow rope, the car could then either be trailed or trailered to the right location, as opposed to the wrong one. And how much training does that take?
But you're missing the obvious again - in order to get the Police rota approval, a recovery operator must demonstrate that he can collect any type of broken vehicle from anywhere at any time, not just a lightly damaged car. If this wasn't the case, the Police would have dozens of different operators to deal with depending on how big/badly damaged/how far off the road they were.If not corruption, it could just be a case of massively over complicating things, in a very British way. Really, how much training and specialist equipment do you need to recover a crashed car? Sure sometimes you'll get a mangled, leaking wreckage that needs to be hoisted on with a crane, but most accidents could easily be recovered with a Land Rover or similar, and a tow rope, the car could then either be trailed or trailered to the right location, as opposed to the wrong one. And how much training does that take?
And you can't ask the accident victim if he knows anyone for reasons already mentioned; the Police cannot babysit the accident until a mate decides to get out of bed to attend, but if they don't stay with it, MOPs will constantly phone 999 to report an accident.
The way that the system works now is common sense.
Edited by littleredrooster on Thursday 14th June 10:08
littleredrooster said:
AJS- said:
littleredrooster said:
AJS- said:
...
If not corruption, it could just be a case of massively over complicating things, in a very British way. Really, how much training and specialist equipment do you need to recover a crashed car? Sure sometimes you'll get a mangled, leaking wreckage that needs to be hoisted on with a crane, but most accidents could easily be recovered with a Land Rover or similar, and a tow rope, the car could then either be trailed or trailered to the right location, as opposed to the wrong one. And how much training does that take?
But you're missing the obvious again - in order to get the Police rota approval, a recovery operator must demonstrate that he can collect any type of broken vehicle from anywhere at any time, not just a lightly damaged car. If this wasn't the case, the Police would have dozens of different operators to deal with depending on how big/badly damaged/how far off the road they were.If not corruption, it could just be a case of massively over complicating things, in a very British way. Really, how much training and specialist equipment do you need to recover a crashed car? Sure sometimes you'll get a mangled, leaking wreckage that needs to be hoisted on with a crane, but most accidents could easily be recovered with a Land Rover or similar, and a tow rope, the car could then either be trailed or trailered to the right location, as opposed to the wrong one. And how much training does that take?
And you can't ask the accident victim if he knows anyone for reasons already mentioned; the Police cannot babysit the accident until a mate decides to get out of bed to attend, but if they don't stay with it, MOPs will constantly phone 999 to report an accident.
The way that the system works now is common sense.
As for corruption, as stated above I see a lot more scope for it with 500 quid flying around. Of course there's scope for it either way really.
AJS- said:
Where on earth is the common sense in towing a car 12 miles in the wrong direction then storing it for 12 days?
As for corruption, as stated above I see a lot more scope for it with 500 quid flying around. Of course there's scope for it either way really.
Where is the common sense in leaving it in the recovery yard for 12 days then? Why not collect it the following morning. Or is this the same mate with a tow-rope who would have collected it at 2am? Good job he didn't wait...As for corruption, as stated above I see a lot more scope for it with 500 quid flying around. Of course there's scope for it either way really.
AJS- said:
littleredrooster said:
AJS- said:
littleredrooster said:
AJS- said:
...
If not corruption, it could just be a case of massively over complicating things, in a very British way. Really, how much training and specialist equipment do you need to recover a crashed car? Sure sometimes you'll get a mangled, leaking wreckage that needs to be hoisted on with a crane, but most accidents could easily be recovered with a Land Rover or similar, and a tow rope, the car could then either be trailed or trailered to the right location, as opposed to the wrong one. And how much training does that take?
But you're missing the obvious again - in order to get the Police rota approval, a recovery operator must demonstrate that he can collect any type of broken vehicle from anywhere at any time, not just a lightly damaged car. If this wasn't the case, the Police would have dozens of different operators to deal with depending on how big/badly damaged/how far off the road they were.If not corruption, it could just be a case of massively over complicating things, in a very British way. Really, how much training and specialist equipment do you need to recover a crashed car? Sure sometimes you'll get a mangled, leaking wreckage that needs to be hoisted on with a crane, but most accidents could easily be recovered with a Land Rover or similar, and a tow rope, the car could then either be trailed or trailered to the right location, as opposed to the wrong one. And how much training does that take?
And you can't ask the accident victim if he knows anyone for reasons already mentioned; the Police cannot babysit the accident until a mate decides to get out of bed to attend, but if they don't stay with it, MOPs will constantly phone 999 to report an accident.
The way that the system works now is common sense.
As for corruption, as stated above I see a lot more scope for it with 500 quid flying around. Of course there's scope for it either way really.
There are people who are happy do drive cars with wings missing, doors hanging off etc after a bump where does the common sense start and stop between ?.
Just out of interest when did the pal with the Landy last have his CRB check for picking up possibly vulnerable people in the middle of the night ?
stuwalsh said:
All the comments here just seem to relate to cost.
The point I was trying to make, and the guy who started the thread really is what about a bit of good old common sense? At this point I am inclined to say the obvious, we're dealing with plod and there's a lot of empty space inside that helmet!
The biggest prob the op has got is with the cost, i reckon if all things being the same and he was billed £50 he wouldn't be moaning so much (but that's unlikely on the many occaions of stupidy & lack of common sense i've seen from people they will moan about anything not going their way).The point I was trying to make, and the guy who started the thread really is what about a bit of good old common sense? At this point I am inclined to say the obvious, we're dealing with plod and there's a lot of empty space inside that helmet!
Must admit I'm not sure where the 12 days went, but I assume the modus operandi for this scam is that as mentioned there was no paperwork, the vehicle disappears and then they don't even tell you where it is for 12 days, by which time you've run up a few hundred quid more on storage fees.
Re CRB checks, there's a policeman in attendance anyway isn't there?
Re CRB checks, there's a policeman in attendance anyway isn't there?
AJS- said:
Must admit I'm not sure where the 12 days went, but I assume the modus operandi for this scam is that as mentioned there was no paperwork, the vehicle disappears and then they don't even tell you where it is for 12 days, by which time you've run up a few hundred quid more on storage fees.
Then they use a magic shrink ray to make the car into matchbox size; it costs eleventy billion pounds to make it bigger again!AJS- said:
Must admit I'm not sure where the 12 days went, but I assume the modus operandi for this scam is that as mentioned there was no paperwork, the vehicle disappears and then they don't even tell you where it is for 12 days, by which time you've run up a few hundred quid more on storage fees.
Re CRB checks, there's a policeman in attendance anyway isn't there?
Possibly an entirely different subject, but CRB checks are not all they are cracked up to be.Re CRB checks, there's a policeman in attendance anyway isn't there?
The way I understand them they simply tell whoever commissions the check a persons background. The person who receives the info then has to make a decision as to whether the person if fit to do what he intends them to.
So, it could say something on a persons record, if his employer then says thats nowt to worry about, he can go ahead and do. The even bigger problem is a person is not deemed an offender until he is actually caught and convicted. Look at that fella in Soham as a prime example.
AJS- said:
Must admit I'm not sure where the 12 days went, but I assume the modus operandi for this scam is that as mentioned there was no paperwork, the vehicle disappears and then they don't even tell you where it is for 12 days, by which time you've run up a few hundred quid more on storage fees.
Re CRB checks, there's a policeman in attendance anyway isn't there?
You know when the recovery truck turned up,well it would have had its company name and phone number on it.Re CRB checks, there's a policeman in attendance anyway isn't there?
AJS- said:
Where on earth is the common sense in towing a car 12 miles in the wrong direction then storing it for 12 days?
So the big issue here is that they towed it 12 miles away from the owners house.What do you want then,a recovery yard every half a mile all the way across the uk,so that in the event of anyone crashing near their house it will be stored locally.
littleredrooster said:
And you can't ask the accident victim if he knows anyone for reasons already mentioned; the Police cannot babysit the accident until a mate decides to get out of bed to attend, but if they don't stay with it, MOPs will constantly phone 999 to report an accident.
But they can babysit it for the ~2 hours it takes their contractor to arrive?Edited by littleredrooster on Thursday 14th June 10:08
TPS said:
AJS- said:
Where on earth is the common sense in towing a car 12 miles in the wrong direction then storing it for 12 days?
So the big issue here is that they towed it 12 miles away from the owners house.What do you want then,a recovery yard every half a mile all the way across the uk,so that in the event of anyone crashing near their house it will be stored locally.
Re CRB checks - no they prove nothing. I got one for my work visa in Thailand, it simply stated that they had no record of me being convicted of anything. It's a safeguard that stops a convicted child molester getting a job in a school, but it doesn't guarantee someone's character.
abbotsmike said:
littleredrooster said:
And you can't ask the accident victim if he knows anyone for reasons already mentioned; the Police cannot babysit the accident until a mate decides to get out of bed to attend, but if they don't stay with it, MOPs will constantly phone 999 to report an accident.
But they can babysit it for the ~2 hours it takes their contractor to arrive?Edited by littleredrooster on Thursday 14th June 10:08
As already said, Police recovery operator fees are set nationally.
They are nationally set, and are non-negotiable. They include the cost of any specialist equipment or labour used in the recovery. So you should not be charged for bedwash or any lifting, only the set rate, + storage.
The lorry recovery rates aren't actually that bad, when you see the cost of the trucks used to do the recovery. The car rates are actually pretty laughable. You could call the police recovery agent out privately, pay for specialist equipment and have them drop it at your home address for sub £100 in most cases. For the police fee, you'd probably get a reacharound thrown in.
Also, a breakdown company will usually prioritise an attendance, when the police are on scene, to reduce the chance of the police recovering it.
One main breakdown organisations one off callout fee is £108, not including specialist equipment. And, if you were already a member and you've had an accident (not including damage to any third party property) you're covered for an attendance, with only the cost of extra equipment to pay.
5 years of experience in the breakdown industry here.
Parity isn't a word often used...
They are nationally set, and are non-negotiable. They include the cost of any specialist equipment or labour used in the recovery. So you should not be charged for bedwash or any lifting, only the set rate, + storage.
The lorry recovery rates aren't actually that bad, when you see the cost of the trucks used to do the recovery. The car rates are actually pretty laughable. You could call the police recovery agent out privately, pay for specialist equipment and have them drop it at your home address for sub £100 in most cases. For the police fee, you'd probably get a reacharound thrown in.
Also, a breakdown company will usually prioritise an attendance, when the police are on scene, to reduce the chance of the police recovering it.
One main breakdown organisations one off callout fee is £108, not including specialist equipment. And, if you were already a member and you've had an accident (not including damage to any third party property) you're covered for an attendance, with only the cost of extra equipment to pay.
5 years of experience in the breakdown industry here.
Parity isn't a word often used...
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