Legal advice/bullying police?
Discussion
Hey guys,
I just wanted some thoughts regarding something that happened to myself and my partner today regarding the police. I'll start from the beginning so you can understand exactly what the police were told and then make your judgements from there:
This coming saturday is my partners best friends wedding, now sadly my partners best friends mother suddenly passed away a few days ago and the funeral was held this morning with the family still wishing to go ahead with the wedding at the weekend. My partner was driving herself to the funeral this morning using her Iphones sat nav when she was suddenly pulled over by Strathclyde police. My partner, as most of you will understand, was already quite upset due to the weeks events and was told to get out of the car and get in the back of the police car. The officer advised my partner that it is illegal to drive and text at the same time to which my partner responded that she was not texting but using her phones sat nav to try and find the church where the funeral was being held, the officer told her that it is against the law to use any mobile device in any way whilst driving, and proceeded to write out a ticket for £60 and 3 points. My partner, having a full clean driving history has never dealt with the police before and was just desperate to get to the funeral asap so she accepted the ticket thinking that she would be able to dispute it at some point after today. In turn this made my partner 20 minutes late to the funeral, which has absolutely devastated her.
Having been told about this in the afternoon I can say that I was slightly angry with the disregard by Strathclyde Police for my partners emotional wellbeing and believe the situation could have been dealt with in a much more understanding way.
I then decided I would visit the police station and make a formal complaint regarding the above, I also wanted to find out who we would have to contact to dispute the ticket as it is NOT illegal to use a mobile device when driving, it IS illegal to text, make/receive calls or access the internet (as stated here: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/roa... ) and my partners contract will show no texts, calls or internet were either made or received during and approximate 90 minute window at this time. I was very polite to the officer I spoke to in Partick Police Station however the officer did not feel the need to reciprocate my pleasantry. He advised me that because my partner had signed the ticket then "she's already guilty", I pointed out that she hadn't actually signed anything, he checked again and the advised me that as soon as she made the payment then she would be guilty, I asked how can I refute this claim, he said "You can't.", I said that there must be a way to argue that my partner is not guilty, he said that the only way of doing this is to not pay the fine, wait for the ticket to go to court and then "somebody will come round your house to collect the money". I asked if there was any way to be proactive with refuting this claim, he said that I should start speaking to a solicitor.
I then also asked how to make a formal complaint against the police officers as I had checked online but all I can find is the Scottish Police Complaints Commission and I didn't believe it needed to go that far, he said that you can only make a formal complaint by speaking either to the officer involved or his Sargent, and also that I wouldn't be able to make the complaint on behalf of my partner but that she would have to speak to them. I then asked for the number to be able to contact the officer and his Sargent at which point he pointed at the general Strathclyde Police non-emergency number on the poster on the wall (at which point I was trying very hard not say "are you being f
king serious!").
So my question is this, am I just being over protective of my girlfriend or what?
I just wanted some thoughts regarding something that happened to myself and my partner today regarding the police. I'll start from the beginning so you can understand exactly what the police were told and then make your judgements from there:
This coming saturday is my partners best friends wedding, now sadly my partners best friends mother suddenly passed away a few days ago and the funeral was held this morning with the family still wishing to go ahead with the wedding at the weekend. My partner was driving herself to the funeral this morning using her Iphones sat nav when she was suddenly pulled over by Strathclyde police. My partner, as most of you will understand, was already quite upset due to the weeks events and was told to get out of the car and get in the back of the police car. The officer advised my partner that it is illegal to drive and text at the same time to which my partner responded that she was not texting but using her phones sat nav to try and find the church where the funeral was being held, the officer told her that it is against the law to use any mobile device in any way whilst driving, and proceeded to write out a ticket for £60 and 3 points. My partner, having a full clean driving history has never dealt with the police before and was just desperate to get to the funeral asap so she accepted the ticket thinking that she would be able to dispute it at some point after today. In turn this made my partner 20 minutes late to the funeral, which has absolutely devastated her.
Having been told about this in the afternoon I can say that I was slightly angry with the disregard by Strathclyde Police for my partners emotional wellbeing and believe the situation could have been dealt with in a much more understanding way.
I then decided I would visit the police station and make a formal complaint regarding the above, I also wanted to find out who we would have to contact to dispute the ticket as it is NOT illegal to use a mobile device when driving, it IS illegal to text, make/receive calls or access the internet (as stated here: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/roa... ) and my partners contract will show no texts, calls or internet were either made or received during and approximate 90 minute window at this time. I was very polite to the officer I spoke to in Partick Police Station however the officer did not feel the need to reciprocate my pleasantry. He advised me that because my partner had signed the ticket then "she's already guilty", I pointed out that she hadn't actually signed anything, he checked again and the advised me that as soon as she made the payment then she would be guilty, I asked how can I refute this claim, he said "You can't.", I said that there must be a way to argue that my partner is not guilty, he said that the only way of doing this is to not pay the fine, wait for the ticket to go to court and then "somebody will come round your house to collect the money". I asked if there was any way to be proactive with refuting this claim, he said that I should start speaking to a solicitor.
I then also asked how to make a formal complaint against the police officers as I had checked online but all I can find is the Scottish Police Complaints Commission and I didn't believe it needed to go that far, he said that you can only make a formal complaint by speaking either to the officer involved or his Sargent, and also that I wouldn't be able to make the complaint on behalf of my partner but that she would have to speak to them. I then asked for the number to be able to contact the officer and his Sargent at which point he pointed at the general Strathclyde Police non-emergency number on the poster on the wall (at which point I was trying very hard not say "are you being f
king serious!").So my question is this, am I just being over protective of my girlfriend or what?
RudolphsOwner said:
He advised me that because my partner had signed the ticket then "she's already guilty", I pointed out that she hadn't actually signed anything, he checked again and the advised me that as soon as she made the payment then she would be guilty, I asked how can I refute this claim, he said "You can't.", I said that there must be a way to argue that my partner is not guilty, he said that the only way of doing this is to not pay the fine, wait for the ticket to go to court and then "somebody will come round your house to collect the money". I asked if there was any way to be proactive with refuting this claim, he said that I should start speaking to a solicitor.
Sorry mate. Crap situation. Been there.This bit above is utter rubbish. You can refute the claim. You don't pay the fixed penalty, and opt for your day in court.
Your day in court comes up and the CPS who realise that the police officer doesn't know the law gets scared any probably drops the case. Failing that, your partner and you give witness testimony as to what happened.
You are found not guilty.
Don't bother complaining until then. You may as well chase your tail. Save your energy for court. Trust me, it is much, much more satisfying.
Why did they pull her over initially?
If they claim she wasn't in proper control of the vehicle they could still use the same 'charge'
150
There is a danger of driver distraction being caused by in-vehicle systems such as satellite navigation systems, congestion warning systems, PCs, multi-media, etc. You MUST exercise proper control of your vehicle at all times. Do not rely on driver assistance systems such as cruise control or lane departure warnings. They are available to assist but you should not reduce your concentration levels. Do not be distracted by maps or screen-based information (such as navigation or vehicle management systems) while driving or riding. If necessary find a safe place to stop.
[Laws RTA 1988 sects 2 & 3 & CUR reg 104]
If they claim she wasn't in proper control of the vehicle they could still use the same 'charge'
150
There is a danger of driver distraction being caused by in-vehicle systems such as satellite navigation systems, congestion warning systems, PCs, multi-media, etc. You MUST exercise proper control of your vehicle at all times. Do not rely on driver assistance systems such as cruise control or lane departure warnings. They are available to assist but you should not reduce your concentration levels. Do not be distracted by maps or screen-based information (such as navigation or vehicle management systems) while driving or riding. If necessary find a safe place to stop.
[Laws RTA 1988 sects 2 & 3 & CUR reg 104]
How is using a hand held sat nav function on a phone safe? Pay the fine, take the points, move on and concentrate on driving in future.
Having been pretty much nudged into oncoming traffic twice already this week by women using mobile phones I am not very full of sympathy.
(while legally filtering on my motorcycle).
Having been pretty much nudged into oncoming traffic twice already this week by women using mobile phones I am not very full of sympathy.
(while legally filtering on my motorcycle).
RudolphsOwner said:
My partner was driving this morning using her Iphones sat nav when she was pulled over by Strathclyde police. The officer advised my partner that it is illegal to drive and text at the same time to which my partner responded that she was not texting but using her phones sat nav, the officer told her that it is against the law to use any mobile device in any way whilst driving. That's not illegal, is it?
Shortened that for you.Pothole said:
Having been pretty much nudged into oncoming traffic twice already this week by women using mobile phones I am not very full of sympathy.
(while legally filtering on my motorcycle).
Going slightly off topic, I thought it was just me but yep, every time I filter past someone in a car with a mobile at their ear or worst, texting, it's a bloody woman.(while legally filtering on my motorcycle).
As mentioned it doesn't matter what purpose the phone is being used for - if the person is driving and it is being used the offence is committed. The legislation was deliberately open-ended so that it didn't need to list and prohibit all the purposes a phone could be used for.
There was a report where a comedian got off a ticket by claiming he was using a voice recording feature of the phone, but IMO the CPS was clueless about the actual law!
edit: As just pointed out, this assumes it was being used hand-held. The quote in the post "the officer told her that it is against the law to use any mobile device in any way whilst driving" is a little vague.
There was a report where a comedian got off a ticket by claiming he was using a voice recording feature of the phone, but IMO the CPS was clueless about the actual law!
edit: As just pointed out, this assumes it was being used hand-held. The quote in the post "the officer told her that it is against the law to use any mobile device in any way whilst driving" is a little vague.
Tiggsy said:
Of all the things you can do with a phone while driving...I'd have thought holding it as a satnav was probably the MOST unsafe thing you can do!
Police are right. Where the driver is heading at the time is (sorry) irrelevant.
Police are right. Where the driver is heading at the time is (sorry) irrelevant.
Pothole said:
Ironic if she had killed someone on the way to a funeral? OP, 'are you fking serious'?
Seems like he is serious.king serious'? One of the many reasons we see such bad driving these days.
CraigyMc has hit the nail on the head.
Sorry to say it OP, but the unfortunate event she was attending doesn't detract from her using her mobile while driving.
Edit- Saw sorry at the bottom of the post and thought it was streaky, going blind.
Sorry to say it OP, but the unfortunate event she was attending doesn't detract from her using her mobile while driving.
Edit- Saw sorry at the bottom of the post and thought it was streaky, going blind.
Edited by MrBrightSi on Wednesday 13th June 23:31
HustleRussell said:
Sorry but I have to agree with the above. I don't really understand your gripe, your missus committed an offense and was duly penalized.
Does it not depend on whether it was hand held or mounted?If it was mounted it is no different than using a factory Sat Nav and the fact that it is a phone is irrelevant.
If she was driving erratically then that is a different matter, but the OP hasn't told us either.
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