If you have something to say (that is pertinent, not impertinent) then put it up here.

...yet, one page ago...
Not too bored then.

Well, the man has the opportunity to get it off his chest, we'll see.

A common sense response to your question might be 'Yes.' !?

Wouldn't last long in court though.

DRLs compound the issue of abuse of front fog lights. Discuss.

There's always a bit of collateral.

Back on topic...

My position is... foglights can in certain circumstance other than weather conditions provide a useful and safe addition to the armoury that allows a driver to avoid an incident.

The Rest... No, foglights are solely for use in foggy conditions (as per the HWC) and can't be used to assist the driver in other circumstances.

You are misrepresenting my position.

The OP began the thread on the legality of fog light use. We are now in agreement that legislation prevents fog light use (front and rear alike) in conditions other than those of "seriously reduced visibility". It is also clear that, for the purposes of the legislation, normal night time conditions or items to the side of the road do not constitute "seriously reduced visibility". On that basis, advising someone to use their fog lights whenever they feel appropriate, regardless of the legislation, is misguided and likely to lead to a ticket if spotted by the BiB.

On the second issue, introduced later (presumably due to the loss on the legal argument), you are now falsely representing my position to say, in blanket fashion, that fog lights "cannot" be useful in any other circumstances. This is not my position. My position is that the lighting regulations permit manufacturers to fit fog lights in such circumstances as to render them of no additional benefit outside of conditions of seriously reduced visibility, as meant by the regulations.

For example, take a look at this Renault Espace:



The front fog lights are placed inboard of the headlights, and the Lighting Regulations dictate that the beam from them must point down from the horizon to a greater percentage than the headlights. In non foggy conditions, the fog light do not provide any further width or reach of light over and above that provided by the headlights. In other words, having them on makes no difference to your lateral or forward vision during normal visibility. Where they are useful, is instances where the headlights cause glare due to fog, and the lower beam angle of the fog lights contributes to an easier view of the road ahead.

On one hand, it would be wrong to say fog lights on all cars can be of benefit outside of conditions of seriously reduced visibility and, on the other, it would be wrong to say it cannot be of benefit on all cars in the same situation. Differences from vehicle to vehicle will determine the outcome, so a blanket yes or no is not sufficient.

What can be said with certainty, is that using those fog lights outside of times of seriously reduced visibility with regard to the meaning of the regulations is unlawful and could lead to a fine.

As it is obvious, Fog Light usage in non reduced visibility is a fixed penalty notice, albeit it a non endorsable £30 fine. I have ticketed a few people with them on, several of the replies to me have been, 'I didn't even realise they were on', the mind boggles. I've even had to show one woman how to turn them off.

As for the dazzle comments, well personally I don't think they dazzle per se, however in wet conditions they are a nightmare and certainly DO dazzle. Put simply there is NO reason to have them on unless you literally cannot see the front of your car for fog.

Two things though. Have Peugeot's 'Driving lights' been discussed (I know technically makes no difference as they come on with full beam'

2. DRL in the place of foglights, for example the mk2 fabia VRs. Total PITA.

Here's the sanction against:

You can use them in conditions of seriously reduced visibility - but good luck claiming darkness, growing crops and indigenous deer counts. I would imagine such reasons would cause the Bench some merriment.

Also if someone made a complaint that the lamps caused dazzle or discomfort then the Police would be obliged to take action.

There are a number of reasons why people use fog lights when it's not foggy:

1. coz they fink it's kool
2. because they don't realise they're on and don't know what that warning light is on the dash
3. because they believe it helps their vision even when it does not
4. because it's foggy

Only one is lawful, the first 3 just mean you are a tit, there could be more of course.

you forgot:

1. Because having the additional lights on makes them more visible to other drivers.

You may think they're a tit; prat; wr; moron, whatever, but at least you noticed that they were there.
How many accidents have been followed by the excuse: "Sorry mate, I simply didn't see you!"



Here's an interesting question:

Which is more dangerous?:
A) A driver using his front fog-lights in rainy conditions to be more noticeable to other road users (even though it is illegal)
OR
B) A driver using no lights at all in rainy conditions and being nigh-on invisible to other road users [especially if they're driving silver cars] (and breaking no laws in the process)





(And before we get all the: "Everybody with any sense should have their dip beams on in the rain!", lets face facts here, plenty of drivers don't bother lighting up in the rain despite the obvious safety implications).

The basis of the question is: The more light up front the better, as people pay little attention enough in good visibility conditions, never mind reduced conditions.

Four glowing lights in wet conditions are far more noticeable than two.

Lights are not there only to see with, they're also there for others to see you (hence DRL's these days).



Also, if the use of front fog lights is so dangerous to other road users, how come Mercedes and Volkswagen group cars use them for corner assist? Surely all these cars are breaking the Law then?