20mph limits & speed humps do not work - IAM on DfT data

[technogogo]

Yes I listened to that episode of "More Or Less" today using iPlayer.

It is a great show to listen to. I am constantly amazed how it shows the degree to which we are misled, mostly through ignorance, by newspapers and politicians.

[S. Gonzales Esq.]

I liked the way the advisor to Bristol City Council that appeared on the programme mentioned the drop in average speeds in the new 20 zones, but not that the reduction was only 1mph. I don't have the numbers to hand, but IIRC the average went from 27 to 26 - so hundreds of thousands of formerly legal drivers are now speeding and risk points, fines, loss of licence etc.

I suspect if collisions in the South Bristol test area had actually reduced she would have mentioned that - the inconvenient increase in incidents after the 20 zone was introduced is naturally statistically insignificant.

[MrTrilby]

mybrainhurts said:

If there aren't any accidents, you have your answer. There isn't a problem. Except for the few moaners, but they'd be moaning about something else if they didn't have this to moan about.

Except that's a very simplistic view. There have been no *reported* accidents down our road, so the Council ignores our requests for road safety improvements (even simple stuff like signs that are actually visible). That doesn't mean there aren't accidents though - cars fall off the road and go through walls several times a year - but with no severe injuries the police are not involved and it is not recorded. Furthermore, because the people who live on the road perceive it as being dangerous, almost no one walks on it (there is no footpath). So there are no accidents involving pedestrians not because the road is safe, but because pedestrians are too scared to use it, and everyone takes their kids to school in the car.

So there's your answer. "No accidents" does not mean a road is safe or that people requesting road safety improvements do not have a valid argument when complaining about speeding traffic.

[Chimune]

MrTrilby said:

Except that's a very simplistic view. There have been no *reported* accidents down our road, so the Council ignores our requests for road safety improvements (even simple stuff like signs that are actually visible). That doesn't mean there aren't accidents though - cars fall off the road and go through walls several times a year - but with no severe injuries the police are not involved and it is not recorded. Furthermore, because the people who live on the road perceive it as being dangerous, almost no one walks on it (there is no footpath). So there are no accidents involving pedestrians not because the road is safe, but because pedestrians are too scared to use it, and everyone takes their kids to school in the car.

So there's your answer. "No accidents" does not mean a road is safe or that people requesting road safety improvements do not have a valid argument when complaining about speeding traffic.

Are you suggesting we should pay for road safetly measures on roads that have no accidents ?

[julian64]

Round my way the problem with speed bumps gets even worse. Traffic has learned that if there is nothing comming the other way they will try and swerve across to the centre of the road to put the cars wheels between them rather than go over them.

So fast forward a year of use and now what you get is that you are driving down a road on your side and if the oncomming driver thinks he has enough time he swerves onto the wrong side of the road to take the bumps.

Ive seen near misses, panic braking, and even a car who mounted the pavement all due to this.

[MrTrilby]

Chimune said:

Are you suggesting we should pay for road safetly measures on roads that have no accidents ?

That have no officially recorded accidents, yes, exactly that.

[Chimune]

MrTrilby said:

Chimune said:

Are you suggesting we should pay for road safetly measures on roads that have no accidents ?

That have no officially recorded accidents, yes, exactly that.

So how are we going to tell if a road has had no accidents or just no officially recorded accidents ?

[MrTrilby]

By being a little more broad minded and realising that we can use more than just accident statistics to determine how safe or otherwise a road is, and how fit for purpose it is.