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tvrgit
7,943 posts
121 months
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The MOT Certificate is valid until the day it expires. Nothing invalidates that.
The car could fail a roadside check, and therefore be deemed unroadworthy, the day after an MOT certificate was issued, or the day before it expires. Makes no difference as to whether the car is roadworthy or not, at a particular point in time.
If it fails another test in the interim, the old certificate is still valid, so it will NOT show up on ANPR and you can't be done for no MOT. You can still be done, as above, for the car being unroadworthy, MOT certificate or not.
Is that clear enough, for the million-and-first, but unlikely to be the bleeding last, time?
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Deva Link
26,934 posts
114 months
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littleredrooster said: b  ks. Where do you get this rubbish from? ANPR will show it as having a valid MOT. I honestly don't know so I'm not going to claim either way, but if the MOT computer system shows it instantly as a fail, why wouldn't ANPR pick it up (once updated, which I gather doesn't happen in real time)? littleredrooster said: Your car could be unroadworthy the day after it has passed an MOT. Insurance companies cannot abdicate their responsibilities as easily as that. The difference is that, as a 'lay' person, you'd be entitled to rely on your MOT. If you'd been told the vehicle had failed and was unroadworthy, then that defence ceases to exist.
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essayer
1,590 posts
63 months
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So we have a few coppers on here, have any pulled over a car for not having MOT, then seen a (legit) certificate that had been 'superceded' by a recent failure?
I suspect not. A MOT is valid for 12 months. End of.
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Piersman2
3,133 posts
68 months
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Deva Link said: The difference is that, as a 'lay' person, you'd be entitled to rely on your MOT. If you'd been told the vehicle had failed and was unroadworthy, then that defence ceases to exist. No it doesn't, there is no defence to driving an unworthy car on the road. It's up to the driver to ensure that it's roadworthy regardless of MOT status. For example, for the hard of thinking, you cannot MOT your car then run it for 11 months without being liable for the condition of the tyres. The MOT only signifies that the car passed ON THE DAY of the MOT. Conversely, just because your car failed an MOT inspection on emmissions, that does not make the car unsafe to drive on the road and does not imvalidate the existing issued MOT. You could take you car in for an MOT inspection a month before the old one is up it could fail on 4 bald tyres. That will NOT invalidate your existing MOT. But you'd have to decide whether you wanted to drive a car with 4 bald tyres home again and risk prosecution and 12 points.
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Deva Link
26,934 posts
114 months
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essayer said: A MOT is valid for 12 months. End of. That's not really the issue though, is it? Not having an MOT is not a big deal (£60 penalty and no points, I think). The issue is whether it's legitimate to keep using the vehicle knowing that it's failed its MOT (and could be, but is not necessarily) unroadworthy.
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tvrgit
7,943 posts
121 months
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Deva Link said: tvrgit said: A MOT is valid for 12 months. End of. That's not really the issue though, is it? Not having an MOT is not a big deal (£60 penalty and no points, I think). The issue is whether it's legitimate to keep using the vehicle knowing that it's failed its MOT (and could be, but is not necessarily) unroadworthy. Well you're right, the issue was whether the the OP could drive home from the garage after a fail. The answer is yes, provided that car isn't unroadworthy. I agree with you, that it would be silly to keep using a car that had failed, for example, because a brake hose was bulging, or its suspension was held on by rust. It seems this one failed on emissions, so that should be ok. The burden is on the driver to make sure that the car s roadworthy. An MOT doesn't guarantee that it is, except, probably, on the day of the test. A lack of MOT doesn't guarantee that it isn't. As you say, the MOT is only a bit of paper, to make sure that cars are examined at least every year, so shouldn't deteriorate TOO much. My post was really in relation to the later misinformed comments, that a "fail" invalidates a current MOT. It doesn't.
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streaky
18,235 posts
118 months
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surveyor said: TwigtheWonderkid said: Stoofa said: If your current MOT hasn't expired and you then fail an MOT test, the original MOT certificate is still valid, so no problem. No it isn't. If you fail an MOT, your current MOT is no longer valid, even if it hasn't expired yet. But you can drive to and from a pre arranged MOT test. Is that Twit the wonder kid? Better if it were Twit the Yonder Kid. Streaky
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daz3210
5,000 posts
109 months
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Piersman2 said: You could take you car in for an MOT inspection a month before the old one is up it could fail on 4 bald tyres. That will NOT invalidate your existing MOT. But you'd have to decide whether you wanted to drive a car with 4 bald tyres home again and risk prosecution and 12 points. No, but if you were advised of four bald tyres, and replaced them, if the MOT is not invalidated you then have a month to resubmit the vehicle, whereas if it voided the old MOT you are then driving without a valid certificate.
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oldsoak
5,585 posts
71 months
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littleredrooster said: FFS - we do this once per week. Does nobody read the threads in here before posting the same s te? Seems to be a resounding "NO" response due...
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TwigtheWonderkid
6,052 posts
19 months
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Well, I'm taking a lot of stick over this, but I've lifted this from the Directgov website:
"When your vehicle is tested at a testing station your test record will be entered on to a secure central database. You’ll then be given either an MOT (pass) certificate or notification of failure. The certificate is your receipt for the MOT test and shows the information that’s held on the database.
The test certificate is no longer proof of an MOT and shouldn’t be relied on as such. Only the MOT computer database record can prove a vehicle has a valid MOT."
So reading that, if you fail your MOT, the database is showing that the car failed it's MOT. You may have an in date MOT cartificate in your possession, as the old one hasn't expired, but as explained above, the MOT certificate is no longer proof of an MOT, only the MOT computer database record can prove a vehicle has a valid MOT. And the MOT database shows your car failed!
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BertBert
7,057 posts
80 months
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Stick which is well deserved again. You are just making up what happens to suit your own argument. The existence of your MoT is nothing to do with whether you have a cert, new or old. It starts at x and expires a year later regardless of whether that info is written on the computer, on a certificate or in lipstick on toilet paper. And importantly regardless of whether it has passed or failed subsequent tests. Bert TwigtheWonderkid said: Well, I'm taking a lot of stick over this, but I've lifted this from the Directgov website:
"When your vehicle is tested at a testing station your test record will be entered on to a secure central database. You’ll then be given either an MOT (pass) certificate or notification of failure. The certificate is your receipt for the MOT test and shows the information that’s held on the database.
The test certificate is no longer proof of an MOT and shouldn’t be relied on as such. Only the MOT computer database record can prove a vehicle has a valid MOT."
So reading that, if you fail your MOT, the database is showing that the car failed it's MOT. You may have an in date MOT cartificate in your possession, as the old one hasn't expired, but as explained above, the MOT certificate is no longer proof of an MOT, only the MOT computer database record can prove a vehicle has a valid MOT. And the MOT database shows your car failed!
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TwigtheWonderkid
6,052 posts
19 months
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BertBert said: Stick which is well deserved again.
You are just making up what happens to suit your own argument. The existence of your MoT is nothing to do with whether you have a cert, new or old. It starts at x and expires a year later regardless of whether that info is written on the computer, on a certificate or in lipstick on toilet paper. And importantly regardless of whether it has passed or failed subsequent tests.
Bert Instead of ranting, can you actually produce some evidence to show that when you fail your MOT and that info is recorded on the database, that doesn't take presidence or overwrite the MOT pass that was put on the database 11 and a half months previously. You're saying the MOT is valid of whether it's written on the computer, lipstick, loo paper etc, but the Directgov website says pretty clearly that if it's not on the MOT database, it isn't valid, even if you have it carved into tablets of stone (see, it can be stupid too).
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mcford
495 posts
43 months
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A MOT can be valid for 12 or 13 months, surely the database is a list of vehicles with valid MOTs rather than a list of every MOT test carried out.
The car has a valid certificate until its expiry date, no amount of refusals to issue a certificate in the meantime will change that.
As to the MOT showing that a car is roadworthy, it doesn't. I've had to pass vehicles knowing that they would immediately fail a roadside check.
Not having a valid MOT just gives the police a reason to stop the car, which in some cases is not a bad thing. Wasn't there a case a while ago where a car got pulled for no MOT and was found to contain guns, explosives and terrorists?
A car can be driven to a pre-booked test, to a place of repair, to a scrapyard or warmed up for a test and driven during the test without a valid MOT.
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littleredrooster
1,448 posts
65 months
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A car is granted a Certificate for twelve months. That is immutable. Nothing can change the end-date, not even a subsequent failure.
FFS stop putting your own interpretation onto the legislation.
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TwigtheWonderkid
6,052 posts
19 months
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littleredrooster said: A car is granted a Certificate for twelve months. A certificate is not proof of an MOT. It's on the website!!! A car only has an MOT if the database says it has an MOT. Can someone please post some EVIDENCE that an MOT failure logged on the database in July 12 will not overwrite or supercede an MOT pass logged ont the database in Aug 11. That's all I'm asking for. When I see that I'll gladly admit to being wrong. No problem with that. I'm not big into ego massaging.
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Red Devil
4,247 posts
77 months
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Tell you what TtW why don't you volunteer to test your hypothesis? Then the answer can be be made a sticky on here and future posters with the same question can be directed thereto.
If it IS as you say, I am sure this would have surfaced by now.
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daz3210
5,000 posts
109 months
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TwigtheWonderkid said: A certificate is not proof of an MOT. It's on the website!!!
A car only has an MOT if the database says it has an MOT.
Can someone please post some EVIDENCE that an MOT failure logged on the database in July 12 will not overwrite or supercede an MOT pass logged ont the database in Aug 11.
That's all I'm asking for. When I see that I'll gladly admit to being wrong. No problem with that. I'm not big into ego massaging. Why don't you go away and investigate what the database exactly contains. Or maybe I should tell you. The database contains, for each specific vehicle, details of all tests carried out (back about 4 or 5 years I think), including failure points and advisory points. So, if your MOT was valid until say 31st July 2012, but you had it tested say 23rd July 2012 and it failed on say a bald(ish) tyre, the database would show the previous test, and the failure. So if you were pulled up on 24th July, the copper should be able to see what the failure was, and providing it had been corrected, your previous MOT should leave you totally legal. The bald tyre would not actually affect the previous MOT validity. If you want to know more look here http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/motoring/owningavehicl... you need your registration mark and MOT certificate number. Now go away and stop trying to make invalid arguments.
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TwigtheWonderkid
6,052 posts
19 months
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daz3210 said: your previous MOT should leave you totally legal. Should???? That doesn't sound very convincing. There's no point on me going on the website as my car is under 3 yrs old so never had an MOT. My source on this is a client of mine that ownes a garage with MOT testing facility. He is adamant that the last database entry is the only one that matters, but he could be wrong. It does worry me though that so many people on here have made reference to a valid MOT certificate, and he told me that an MOT certificate meant nothing and that the database was all that counts, and he's been proved right about that, according to the Directgov website.
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surveyor
4,546 posts
53 months
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TwigtheWonderkid said: Should???? That doesn't sound very convincing.
There's no point on me going on the website as my car is under 3 yrs old so never had an MOT.
My source on this is a client of mine that ownes a garage with MOT testing facility. He is adamant that the last database entry is the only one that matters, but he could be wrong.
It does worry me though that so many people on here have made reference to a valid MOT certificate, and he told me that an MOT certificate meant nothing and that the database was all that counts, and he's been proved right about that, according to the Directgov website. But why is the last entry the only valid entry on the database? Tell us that as were all wrong?
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daz3210
5,000 posts
109 months
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TwigtheWonderkid said: Should???? That doesn't sound very convincing.
There's no point on me going on the website as my car is under 3 yrs old so never had an MOT.
My source on this is a client of mine that ownes a garage with MOT testing facility. He is adamant that the last database entry is the only one that matters, but he could be wrong.
It does worry me though that so many people on here have made reference to a valid MOT certificate, and he told me that an MOT certificate meant nothing and that the database was all that counts, and he's been proved right about that, according to the Directgov website. If it doesn't affect you, then why are you being a pedantic t t? But, just for your peace of mind, I just checked one of our work cars. For each and every test there is listed a 'TEST EXPIRY DATE'. Where the vehicle failed a test, the prior test expiry date does not end on the date of the subsequent failure. Hence the only conclusion can be is that the previous test remains valid, if you were to present a valid printout in court, or produce a certificate, it would have to be accepted as valid. And anyway, an MOT certificate, even if on a database is no guarantee that a vehicle is roadworthy if stopped.
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