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toxicated
Original Poster
713 posts
82 months
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Hi
Mods - I'm after some legal advice here, please don't stick this in Camping! Thanks!
I went camping a couple of months ago and at the end of our time, the rain came down. It's local to us and we arranged with the person who booked us in to leave the tent and pay a holding fee. We agreed with them we'd leave it on site for the duration of the summer holidays and pay when we visited.
The next few weekends were solid rain but we called up to check on the tent and spoke to the owner. He claimed to know nothing but sent an email the next day saying he'd decided it was abandoned, had taken it down, disposed of some stuff that had been damaged in the process, tried to sell some because he didn't know who owned it (he had our details) and was going to charge me £270.
I spoke with our household legal advice who pointed out the campsite had a verbal agreement with us, he should have records showing who we were (we were in a specific area so he certainly had our details) and that he had a duty of care for the equipment even if he didn't know who owned it and shouldn't have tried to sell it, nor should he decide if he could throw things away.
I wrote to him along those lines and he eventually responded by saying he'd put the tent back up but would now charge me £500 to get it back.
I sent a letter back saying we'd agreed £20 a weekend, I'd round that up to £100 as a gesture but should he refuse that I'd take him to court to reclaim my money.
He's just responded with a three line email:
You do not seem to understand that there was and never has been any contract or agreement. You abandoned your tent and my booking records are just fine. I will be auctioning the tent in the next few days to recover my costs.
I am sorry that this has come to this
Any suggestions on how to proceed? Pay up and try to reclaim? Call the police and tell them he's trying to sell property he knows is not his?
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Changedmyname
4,736 posts
50 months
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After reading your post ,I'm unable to give any advice,but I have to say that guy is an arse.
Good luck.
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GoneAnon
903 posts
21 months
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Not much help to you, but a verbal agreement isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
The Ts&Cs may also have a line saying something to the effect that employees may not enter into a contract on behalf of the business.
£20 per week to leave a tent up is ridiculously cheap - most campsites I've been on charge about that every night.
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hedgefinder
1,417 posts
39 months
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a lesson in getting things in writing perhaps??
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toxicated
Original Poster
713 posts
82 months
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GoneAnon said: Not much help to you, but a verbal agreement isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
The Ts&Cs may also have a line saying something to the effect that employees may not enter into a contract on behalf of the business.
£20 per week to leave a tent up is ridiculously cheap - most campsites I've been on charge about that every night. It's a holding charge to cover Friday and Saturday night. Certainly costs a lot more if there's somebody staying in the tent.
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Wacky Racer
20,279 posts
116 months
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Just put it down to experience and move on.
Don't send him any money and ignore any contact from him.
Buy a new tent, they are not that expensive, and at least you will have a new one.
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shambolic
720 posts
36 months
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Midnight visit in balaclavas and petrol bombs!?!* - not advocating you actually do this but you may feel like it
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Jasandjules
45,376 posts
98 months
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toxicated said: Hi
Any suggestions on how to proceed? Pay up and try to reclaim? Call the police and tell them he's trying to sell property he knows is not his? What do you want to do? IMHO I would call the police and ask them to attend with you at the campsite to prevent a S5 Breach of the Peace. Walking in with a police officer to speak to the manager and discuss his attempts to steal your stuff may get you a result a lot quicker.
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toxicated
Original Poster
713 posts
82 months
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Jasandjules said: toxicated said: Hi
Any suggestions on how to proceed? Pay up and try to reclaim? Call the police and tell them he's trying to sell property he knows is not his? What do you want to do? IMHO I would call the police and ask them to attend with you at the campsite to prevent a S5 Breach of the Peace. Walking in with a police officer to speak to the manager and discuss his attempts to steal your stuff may get you a result a lot quicker. Now that I like the sound of. Thank you. Is this a correct or close enough definition of an S5 Breach of the Peace? Section 5 PO can only be comitted in a public place and is where the behaviour itself causes harrasment, alarm or distress to someone Should I quote that to the police or should I say he's been verbally aggressive on the phone (he was to my wife) and the communication suggests he's going to keep on doing so when I turn up? I want help from the police and don't want to come across as a smart alec to them.
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XCP
10,476 posts
97 months
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Breach of the Peace is a Common Law offence, and can occur anywhere. Public or Private.
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Medic-one
2,100 posts
72 months
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Get a friend to "buy" your tent he is auctioning off, and then go and collect with said friend your property.
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14-7
5,709 posts
60 months
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Cracking use of police time that.
Why not just turn up and take the tent down? If he tries to stop you presumably he will have to physically restrain you or block you in. Ball in his court as to how far he wishes to take it from there.
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Jasandjules
45,376 posts
98 months
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toxicated said: Should I quote that to the police or should I say he's been verbally aggressive on the phone (he was to my wife) and the communication suggests he's going to keep on doing so when I turn up? I want help from the police and don't want to come across as a smart alec to them. You simply say that a campsite is refusing to give back your tents and you are going to recover them and would like an officer in attendance to prevent a breach of the peace, especially given that he has already been threating to your wife....
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SirSamuelBuca
988 posts
26 months
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carreauchompeur
10,599 posts
73 months
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Jeez, what sort of tent are we talking about?
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davepoth
19,884 posts
68 months
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Police will say "It's a civil matter"; if the tent is worth it you can always go for small claims.
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jazzyjeff
3,504 posts
128 months
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davepoth said: Police will say "It's a civil matter"; Exactly. They'll only consider criminal proceedings where there's intent. As a guide, rope in some friends who if necessary can peg him back while you go to ground. Sheet happens!
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carinaman
3,144 posts
41 months
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jazzyjeff said: Exactly. They'll only consider criminal proceedings where there's intent.
As a guide, rope in some friends who if necessary can peg him back while you go to ground. Sheet happens! 'As a guide, rope in some friends' Is there a pun there, even if it's a non camping one?  It was left because it was raining, and it was left there that long because it was raining? It rains in Britain. That's what it does. Perhaps we do need signs on Motorways to warn people that it's foggy?
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Breadvan72
10,209 posts
32 months
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Yes please, and the signs should say "PUT YOUR ******** LIGHTS ON, YOU *******"
Ooops, apologies for introducing motoring into thread.
The OP has been naive, but the campsite dude is acting unlawfully. I doubt that the police would get involved unless there are fisticuffs. A county court could order the campsite to hand over the goods or their value, but the site would have a counterclaim for a reasonable storage fee, in default of agreement. As for the oral agreement, its existence would depend, if it came to a swearing contest, on who was believed.
Why do people get in such pickles over such small matters? OP, why not just take the tent home with you in the first place?
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Breadvan72
10,209 posts
32 months
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Costs or a reasonable fee, yes, but not a random number or punitive charge. The owner has not lost a tent pitch, as he took the tent down. He could claim for the labour costs of doing so (minimal), and for storage. He cannot sell the tent without committing the tort of conversion (a civil wrong involving taking someone else's goods). He would obtain a statutory right to sell if he gave certain notices first, in order to recover lawful charges. He would have to account to the owner for the balance of the sale price (see the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977).
This sounds like a contest between the unwary (OP) and the unreasonable (site owner). Neither comes out of it looking too good.
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