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Benbay001
1,942 posts
26 months
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I dont understand why they would throw mud, suspect it was more likely stones.
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don4l
3,314 posts
45 months
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walm said: It just saddens me that so many on PH think their P&J is worth so much more than a kid's skull! I don't think that anybody has said that their car is worth more than the kid's skull. However, many of us realise that we are only hearing the kid's version of events. So there is probably more to this than has been reported. I feel little sympathy for the kid. Motorists have been killed by kids throwing stones at cars. Unless the police catch the driver, we will never know the truth. Even then, we may not be much the wiser. Don --
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otolith
19,346 posts
73 months
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10 Pence Short said: What of an alternate scenario to yours, where the 15 year old has learning difficulties and the mental age of a 9 year old (hence hanging around with an 11 year old)? I would suggest that his carers ought to have ensured that he wasn't out late at night antagonising strangers by vandalising their property and putting himself at risk of a punch in the head from someone with a less understanding view of yobs than is currently socially acceptable.
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shep1001
2,137 posts
58 months
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walm said: I 100% agree.
We all love our P&Js but for God's sake - this is a kid who now has a fractured skull!!
The punishment here does not match the crime. Not even close.
Would you do this to your own kids? (Obviously they are brought up perfectly and never do anything wrong...)
I can only think of a few crimes where beating someone until their skull is fractured is an appropriate retribution. There is absolutely nothing someone could do to my fully insured, easily repairable car that would justify a broken skull. Nothing. I disagree to an extent, do you think the victims compensation, if any at all or, the perpetrators punishment would have covered the drivers costs or act as a deterrent - NO it wouldn't. If a few more people got a right good pasting for acting like a t  t maybe they would think twice before doing it again. A fractured skull is a tad extreme but a good slap to do what the judicial system can't/wont do is fare game I bet he tried to act the hard man too, when the driver stopped he/they fronted up to him gave him some (racial) abuse rather than legging it.
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Mr Gearchange
3,730 posts
75 months
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walm said: Would you do this to your own kids? (Obviously they are brought up perfectly and never do anything wrong...) Nail. Head. If your kid threw something at your car would a fitting punishment be to fracture their skull? No? Didn't think so.
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Rude-boy
15,509 posts
102 months
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Benbay001 said: I dont understand why they would throw mud, suspect it was more likely stones. This I believe is the point that has been missed. I was certainly no little angle when young but one thing I didn't do was f  k about with things that could cause serious immediate harm. Throwing stones at load of broken glass panes in an allotment, whilst certainly a stupid act, is nothing like throwing them at a 1.5 tonne moving object which may or may not be under the control of a Little Old Lady or Baz the Bruiser. Did the kid deserve a wallop? Most certainly. Did they or the driver deserve it to be more than a sting and a few minutes of "Aww my head hurts!" No. As ever no one is a winner, all are losers, yet none of it would have happened if the promising footballer had been playing football, not chucking stones at cars.
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otolith
19,346 posts
73 months
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If your kid poked you with a stick (with an 'orse's 'ead 'andle), would you give him a bloody good mauling?
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Rude-boy
15,509 posts
102 months
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Mr Gearchange said: walm said: Would you do this to your own kids? (Obviously they are brought up perfectly and never do anything wrong...) Nail. Head. If your kid threw something at your car would a fitting punishment be to fracture their skull? No? Didn't think so. You are correct. That isn't to say though that they wouldn't get a thick ear. Oh sorry, I can't do that anymore either. How about a slap on the wrist. Oh controversial, can't leave any marks or else that would be illegal. So we will just put up with strongly worded complaints and emotional attacks that play on their weaker mental powers. Physical punishment is not allowed. Mental torture is approved of. What a f  ked up society we have created.
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PanzerCommander
2,696 posts
87 months
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Maybe we weren't all little angels as kids but I (and I suspect a great many others) knew better than to throw mud/stones at people/cars/etc. The kid deserved a good hiding as far as I am concerned, the fractured skull may be a bit far but a good hiding was well deserved never the less. This country a law level is too soft on kids like this, "misunderstood", "boys will be boys", "he didn't know any better"... they need to be locked in solitary for a couple of months let out for one hour a day to shower and exercise - but that would impinge on their human rights wouldn't it  The fact a car is insured is totally irrelevant, this fact is what makes it easier for these kids to behave like this "its insured so it doesn't matter" or "the insurance company picks up the bill", "if you own it you can afford to fix it" etc. etc.
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9mm
617 posts
79 months
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garyhun said: You are missing the point. It's the same as giving another driver the bird. Once you have taken an action against someone else, you have entered their life in some way. In some circumstances that will result in nothing, in others it will result in consequences far beyond what you could imagine - as in this case.
Not suggesting the response was the right one, just pointing out that it's not unexpected. Spot on. No different to admonishing another driver over their driving. You had better expect a reaction and be prepared for it to be way ott. The sooner more people get that, the sooner more will go about their business without feeling they can intrude on the lives of others without any fear of the consequences.
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10 Pence Short
27,579 posts
86 months
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9mm said: Spot on.
No different to admonishing another driver over their driving. You had better expect a reaction and be prepared for it to be way ott.
The sooner more people get that, the sooner more will go about their business without feeling they can intrude on the lives of others without any fear of the consequences. If you're driving along with your wife and child, and another motorist pulls out in front of you, causing an accident where your wife gets a split lip, would you think it a reasonable response to drag the other driver from their car and give him a good hiding?
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otolith
19,346 posts
73 months
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10 Pence Short said: If you're driving along with your wife and child, and another motorist pulls out in front of you, causing an accident where your wife gets a split lip, would you think it a reasonable response to drag the other driver from their car and give him a good hiding? What was their intent in causing the accident? Was it clearly done deliberately, for a laugh, or is it possible that it was an honest mistake?
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garyhun
13,982 posts
97 months
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10 Pence Short said: If you're driving along with your wife and child, and another motorist pulls out in front of you, causing an accident where your wife gets a split lip, would you think it a reasonable response to drag the other driver from their car and give him a good hiding? 10P - how is this related to what we are saying? No one is saying it's reasonable, we're saying there are nutters out there. An accident is just that, an accident. A pre-determined act against another driver is something totally different. I cannot understand why you cannot see this.
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Funk
13,074 posts
78 months
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If he hadn't have been chucking mud etc at cars, he wouldn't have ended up in the situation he did; it was his own fault. To those saying we should 'improve the court process' is absurd. It would never have gotten to court, in fact IF the Police had turned up and IF they had caught the scrote, he would've been released with nothing more than a ticking off. He'd mentally flick the V's at the Police and the motorist and carry on being a  . Next time he'll think before invoking the anger of someone who otherwise would have never entered his life.
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oyster
5,203 posts
117 months
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10 Pence Short said: garyhun said: Yep. If you decide to enter someone else's life through your actions, beware there may be consequences. What a load of cobblers. A decent human being, presented with a youngster throwing mud at their car, doesn't beat them up to the point of causing serious injury. I seriously worry about people who decide minor damage to a piece of personal property is worth more than another's well being. There seems to be a lot of internet macho warriors who deem a car more important than life itself. Personally, I think most of these internet warriors were the ones who peed their pants at school and are hence trying to vent their life failures through their ever-so-heroic keyboard attacks.
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10 Pence Short
27,579 posts
86 months
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garyhun said: 10 Pence Short said: If you're driving along with your wife and child, and another motorist pulls out in front of you, causing an accident where your wife gets a split lip, would you think it a reasonable response to drag the other driver from their car and give him a good hiding? 10P - how is this related to what we are saying? No one is saying it's reasonable, we're saying there are nutters out there. An accident is just that, an accident. A pre-determined act against another driver is something totally different. I cannot understand why you cannot see this. First you said: "If you decide to enter someone else's life through your actions, beware there may be consequences."You then followed it up with: "Once you have taken an action against someone else, you have entered their life in some way. In some circumstances that will result in nothing, in others it will result in consequences far beyond what you could imagine - as in this case."The example given by me fits your criteria; the person pulling out has entered another's life by their actions and it has resulted in a consequence. I am merely posing what people would see as reasonable within the confines of a scenario you set up. Now you are going beyond the facts we have to hand and are describing the teenager's actions as "A pre-determined act against another driver [which] is something totally different [to my scenario]". Notwithstanding I cannot see how the teenager in this case was "another driver", seeming the child is unlikely to be a motorist, your ever evolving posts on the subject only highlight the lack of thought in your original point of view. As a principle it is neither morally nor legally right to suggest that once you have committed a minor wrong against a another that, effectively, all bets are off in relation to their counter actions against you. There are certain and limited circumstances in which force can be used lawfully against another. Having mud thrown at your car is not one of them.
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B3NNL
584 posts
37 months
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Go for it then 10p What would you have done? I'm willing to be enlightened.
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oyster
5,203 posts
117 months
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9mm said: garyhun said: You are missing the point. It's the same as giving another driver the bird. Once you have taken an action against someone else, you have entered their life in some way. In some circumstances that will result in nothing, in others it will result in consequences far beyond what you could imagine - as in this case.
Not suggesting the response was the right one, just pointing out that it's not unexpected. Spot on. No different to admonishing another driver over their driving. You had better expect a reaction and be prepared for it to be way ott. The sooner more people get that, the sooner more will go about their business without feeling they can intrude on the lives of others without any fear of the consequences. In other words, normal people should live in fear of thugs? If I'm walking along my street at home and someone drops litter, it is MY fault if I point it out to the person who dropped it and they take offence and hit me? Is that the world you want to live in? Or enjoy living in? Thugs' paradise.
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10 Pence Short
27,579 posts
86 months
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B3NNL said: Go for it then 10p What would you have done? I'm willing to be enlightened. Had I been concerned about other motorists' safety or that more than just mud was being thrown, I would have stopped a little further down the road and called the authorities. If my car had sustained damage I would have waited there for the Police and shown them the damage and exchanged details and told them I would be prepared to give a statement and/or attend court. That would be the normal thing to do.
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long time lurker
229 posts
19 months
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10 Pence Short said: Had I been concerned about other motorists' safety or that more than just mud was being thrown, I would have stopped a little further down the road and called the authorities. If my car had sustained damage I would have waited there for the Police and shown them the damage and exchanged details and told them I would be prepared to give a statement and/or attend court.
That would be the normal thing to do. And you would of stayed calm if the 15 year old scrote decided to throw a punch?? (we don't know the full story but I can guess what the driver was met with when he got out the car)
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