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Pontoneer
2,553 posts
55 months
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singlecoil said: So how about if it was person of, say, 18, or 21? My point was that , in a sense , the younger a victim is , the worse is the crime . It is only natural for most of us , as parents , to be protective of our young ; this extends to other species besides humans . On the other hand , murder is such a serious crime that , no matter the age of the victim , the death penalty should be considered , but only where there is proof positive and no room for doubt . Even the murder of an OAP , such as the elderly gent who was callously run over with his own car recently , when attempting to stop a thief making off with it , would merit the sentence . The victims get a death sentence , why not the guilty who CHOSE to kill in the first place ?
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9mm
618 posts
79 months
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Pontoneer said: My point was that , in a sense , the younger a victim is , the worse is the crime . It is only natural for most of us , as parents , to be protective of our young ; this extends to other species besides humans .
On the other hand , murder is such a serious crime that , no matter the age of the victim , the death penalty should be considered , but only where there is proof positive and no room for doubt .
Even the murder of an OAP , such as the elderly gent who was callously run over with his own car recently , when attempting to stop a thief making off with it , would merit the sentence .
The victims get a death sentence , why not the guilty who CHOSE to kill in the first place ? You are banging your head against a wall. About the only chance you have of seeing a return of the death penalty in this country is if we adopt Sharia law. So, based on current birth rates and demographics, about fity years from now.
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Breadvan72
10,227 posts
32 months
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Just in case you weren't kidding.... http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/demographi...Toronto Globe and Mail stats and projections:- Muslim population in 2012, proportionate to total population Europe: 44 million (6 per cent) United States: 2.6 million (0.8 per cent) Canada: 940,000 (2.8 per cent) Estimated Muslim population in 2030, proportionate to total population Europe (including Russia): 58 million (8 per cent ) United States:6.2 million (1.7 per cent) Canada:2.7 million (6.6 per cent) Fertility rates across Muslim-majority countries 1995: 4.3 children per family 2010: 2.9 children per family 2035: Estimated 2.3 children per family Muslim birth rates in: Iran: 1.7 children Turkey:2.15 children United Arab Emirates: 1.9 children Lebanon:1.86 children
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oobster
4,559 posts
80 months
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Perhaps the PCoJ relates to the Land Rover, maybe cleaned it thoroughly (or had someone clean it) to remove evidence or was in some way trying to hide and/or disguise the Discovery?
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Rovinghawk
2,011 posts
27 months
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Pontoneer said: The victims get a death sentence , why not the guilty who CHOSE to kill in the first place ? Because we don't wish to descend to their level. RH
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longblackcoat
1,256 posts
52 months
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I'll delete my posts in the slim chance I've been misinformed. I'd be grateful if anyone quoting me could do the same.
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dazco
3,329 posts
58 months
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longblackcoat said: I'll delete my posts in the slim chance I've been misinformed. I'd be grateful if anyone quoting me could do the same. Done
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longblackcoat
1,256 posts
52 months
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dazco said: Done Thanks, appreciated
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StuartGGray
6,329 posts
97 months
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Rovinghawk said: StuartGGray said: Whats wrong with a quick waterboarding? Would you be happy for it to be done to you? If he's proven guilty then any punishment is fine, but we shouldn't torture as part of an investigative process. RH I haven't done something terrible to a small child. If she was still alive, it might just save her life to get the info out of him, rather than a "no comment". A short burst of suffering to one man to save the life of a suffering victim? I do know that the "eye for an eye" outlook is unfashionable at the moment. However, I realise at this late stage the chances of her still being alive are slim to say the least.
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dazco
3,329 posts
58 months
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StuartGGray said: I haven't done something terrible to a small child. If she was still alive, it might just save her life to get the info out of him, rather than a "no comment". A short burst of suffering to one man to save the life of a suffering victim? I do know that the "eye for an eye" outlook is unfashionable at the moment. However, I realise at this late stage the chances of her still being alive are slim to say the least. Are you suggesting we torture people suspected of crimes?
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Variomatic
702 posts
30 months
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StuartGGray said: I haven't done something terrible to a small child. Legally neither has he. Even now that he's been arrested. The police are by no means infallible and he could still be found not guilty. More importantly, he could actually be not guilty. Even if convicted, he could be found to have been innocent 20 years from now when new evidence comes to light (happens worryingly often). Torturing the innocent - in fact, torturing anyone - is the sort of behaviour that we have servicemen dying in certain other countries to stop. It has no place at all in ours!
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daz3210
5,000 posts
109 months
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Variomatic said: Torturing the innocent - in fact, torturing anyone - is the sort of behaviour that we have servicemen dying in certain other countries to stop. It has no place at all in ours! That is new one, the previous excuse was to protect us from terrorists, and the one that started it was WMD. Wonder what the next one will be.
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Variomatic
702 posts
30 months
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daz3210 said: That is new one, the previous excuse was to protect us from terrorists, and the one that started it was WMD.
Wonder what the next one will be. Stopping the torture was always the back-up line "we need to because <insert current reason here> and anyway, they torture their people so it's right to depose them". I never said I <i>believed</i> the reasons btw, but cynisism doesn't change that we've got guys dying <i>in the name of</i> protecting the natives against this stuff, while people are asking why our own police can't do the same here 
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db
571 posts
38 months
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Pontoneer said: I would be more than glad to see the guilty party hang for a crime like this While murdering someone for murdering another may appeal to some, it's neither deterrent nor punishment but purely an act of vengeance. If you had committed a crime that called for your life to be spent in prison or your life to be ended, which would you chose?
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Pontoneer
2,553 posts
55 months
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9mm said: You are banging your head against a wall. About the only chance you have of seeing a return of the death penalty in this country is if we adopt Sharia law. So, based on current birth rates and demographics, about fity years from now. I never said that for one moment I expected it to happen , only that in my opinion the sentence ought to be available in certain circumstances . This opinion is shared by others , hence it is debated in parliament every so often .
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Pontoneer
2,553 posts
55 months
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StuartGGray said: I haven't done something terrible to a small child. If she was still alive, it might just save her life to get the info out of him, rather than a "no comment". A short burst of suffering to one man to save the life of a suffering victim? I do know that the "eye for an eye" outlook is unfashionable at the moment. However, I realise at this late stage the chances of her still being alive are slim to say the least. I also don't hold with torturing someone who could ( even remotely ) possibly be innocent . However , if there was some kind of truth drug ( sodium pentathol - I know nothing about the substance ) which could be administered to find out whether he knew anything ( only in what could be a life or death situation for a victim , such as exists in this case , or might have earlier in the week ) then I might look on it as a last resort .
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Pontoneer
2,553 posts
55 months
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db said: While murdering someone for murdering another may appeal to some, it's neither deterrent nor punishment but purely an act of vengeance.
If you had committed a crime that called for your life to be spent in prison or your life to be ended, which would you chose? I could imagine different people choosing each option . The cost to the taxpayer of keeping someone in prison for life is significant .
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La Liga
765 posts
25 months
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dazco
3,329 posts
58 months
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Pontoneer said: I also don't hold with torturing someone who could ( even remotely ) possibly be innocent .
However , if there was some kind of truth drug ( sodium pentathol - I know nothing about the substance ) which could be administered to find out whether he knew anything ( only in what could be a life or death situation for a victim , such as exists in this case , or might have earlier in the week ) then I might look on it as a last resort . I don't know if the truth drug the CIA developed was sodium pentathol, but they stopped using their truth drug because it was very difficult to get the dosage correct. Too little and it did not work, too much and the recipient died, with a very small window of when it does work. I believe the same drug is found in most travel sickness tablets.
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andy_s
8,467 posts
128 months
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dazco said: Pontoneer said: I also don't hold with torturing someone who could ( even remotely ) possibly be innocent .
However , if there was some kind of truth drug ( sodium pentathol - I know nothing about the substance ) which could be administered to find out whether he knew anything ( only in what could be a life or death situation for a victim , such as exists in this case , or might have earlier in the week ) then I might look on it as a last resort . I don't know if the truth drug the CIA developed was sodium pentathol, but they stopped using their truth drug because it was very difficult to get the dosage correct. Too little and it did not work, too much and the recipient died, with a very small window of when it does work. I believe the same drug is found in most travel sickness tablets. And bottles of wine - In Vino Veritas...
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