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Pontoneer

3,464 posts

74 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
singlecoil said:
So how about if it was person of, say, 18, or 21?
My point was that , in a sense , the younger a victim is , the worse is the crime . It is only natural for most of us , as parents , to be protective of our young ; this extends to other species besides humans .

On the other hand , murder is such a serious crime that , no matter the age of the victim , the death penalty should be considered , but only where there is proof positive and no room for doubt .

Even the murder of an OAP , such as the elderly gent who was callously run over with his own car recently , when attempting to stop a thief making off with it , would merit the sentence .

The victims get a death sentence , why not the guilty who CHOSE to kill in the first place ?

9mm

2,235 posts

98 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Pontoneer said:
My point was that , in a sense , the younger a victim is , the worse is the crime . It is only natural for most of us , as parents , to be protective of our young ; this extends to other species besides humans .

On the other hand , murder is such a serious crime that , no matter the age of the victim , the death penalty should be considered , but only where there is proof positive and no room for doubt .

Even the murder of an OAP , such as the elderly gent who was callously run over with his own car recently , when attempting to stop a thief making off with it , would merit the sentence .

The victims get a death sentence , why not the guilty who CHOSE to kill in the first place ?
You are banging your head against a wall. About the only chance you have of seeing a return of the death penalty in this country is if we adopt Sharia law. So, based on current birth rates and demographics, about fity years from now.

Breadvan72

20,217 posts

51 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Just in case you weren't kidding....

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/demographi...

Toronto Globe and Mail stats and projections:-

Muslim population in 2012, proportionate to total population

Europe: 44 million (6 per cent)
United States: 2.6 million (0.8 per cent)
Canada: 940,000 (2.8 per cent)

Estimated Muslim population in 2030, proportionate to total population

Europe (including Russia): 58 million (8 per cent )
United States:6.2 million (1.7 per cent)
Canada:2.7 million (6.6 per cent)


Fertility rates across Muslim-majority countries

1995: 4.3 children per family
2010: 2.9 children per family
2035: Estimated 2.3 children per family

Muslim birth rates in:

Iran: 1.7 children
Turkey:2.15 children
United Arab Emirates: 1.9 children
Lebanon:1.86 children

Edited by Breadvan72 on Sunday 7th October 19:11

oobster

5,359 posts

99 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Perhaps the PCoJ relates to the Land Rover, maybe cleaned it thoroughly (or had someone clean it) to remove evidence or was in some way trying to hide and/or disguise the Discovery?

Rovinghawk

6,573 posts

46 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Pontoneer said:
The victims get a death sentence , why not the guilty who CHOSE to kill in the first place ?
Because we don't wish to descend to their level.

RH
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longblackcoat

2,833 posts

71 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
I'll delete my posts in the slim chance I've been misinformed. I'd be grateful if anyone quoting me could do the same.

dazco

3,781 posts

77 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
longblackcoat said:
I'll delete my posts in the slim chance I've been misinformed. I'd be grateful if anyone quoting me could do the same.
Done

longblackcoat

2,833 posts

71 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
dazco said:
Done
Thanks, appreciated

StuartGGray

7,090 posts

116 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Rovinghawk said:
StuartGGray said:
Whats wrong with a quick waterboarding?
Would you be happy for it to be done to you? If he's proven guilty then any punishment is fine, but we shouldn't torture as part of an investigative process.

RH
I haven't done something terrible to a small child. If she was still alive, it might just save her life to get the info out of him, rather than a "no comment". A short burst of suffering to one man to save the life of a suffering victim? I do know that the "eye for an eye" outlook is unfashionable at the moment. However, I realise at this late stage the chances of her still being alive are slim to say the least.

dazco

3,781 posts

77 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
StuartGGray said:
I haven't done something terrible to a small child. If she was still alive, it might just save her life to get the info out of him, rather than a "no comment". A short burst of suffering to one man to save the life of a suffering victim? I do know that the "eye for an eye" outlook is unfashionable at the moment. However, I realise at this late stage the chances of her still being alive are slim to say the least.
Are you suggesting we torture people suspected of crimes?

Variomatic

1,445 posts

49 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
StuartGGray said:
I haven't done something terrible to a small child.
Legally neither has he. Even now that he's been arrested.

The police are by no means infallible and he could still be found not guilty. More importantly, he could actually be not guilty. Even if convicted, he could be found to have been innocent 20 years from now when new evidence comes to light (happens worryingly often).

Torturing the innocent - in fact, torturing anyone - is the sort of behaviour that we have servicemen dying in certain other countries to stop. It has no place at all in ours!

Edited by Variomatic on Sunday 7th October 23:31


Edited by Variomatic on Sunday 7th October 23:33

daz3210

5,000 posts

128 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Variomatic said:
Torturing the innocent - in fact, torturing anyone - is the sort of behaviour that we have servicemen dying in certain other countries to stop. It has no place at all in ours!
That is new one, the previous excuse was to protect us from terrorists, and the one that started it was WMD.

Wonder what the next one will be.


Variomatic

1,445 posts

49 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
daz3210 said:
That is new one, the previous excuse was to protect us from terrorists, and the one that started it was WMD.

Wonder what the next one will be.
Stopping the torture was always the back-up line "we need to because <insert current reason here> and anyway, they torture their people so it's right to depose them".

I never said I <i>believed</i> the reasons btw, but cynisism doesn't change that we've got guys dying <i>in the name of</i> protecting the natives against this stuff, while people are asking why our own police can't do the same here confused

db

571 posts

57 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Pontoneer said:
I would be more than glad to see the guilty party hang for a crime like this
While murdering someone for murdering another may appeal to some, it's neither deterrent nor punishment but purely an act of vengeance.

If you had committed a crime that called for your life to be spent in prison or your life to be ended, which would you chose?



Pontoneer

3,464 posts

74 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
9mm said:
You are banging your head against a wall. About the only chance you have of seeing a return of the death penalty in this country is if we adopt Sharia law. So, based on current birth rates and demographics, about fity years from now.
I never said that for one moment I expected it to happen , only that in my opinion the sentence ought to be available in certain circumstances .

This opinion is shared by others , hence it is debated in parliament every so often .

Pontoneer

3,464 posts

74 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
StuartGGray said:
I haven't done something terrible to a small child. If she was still alive, it might just save her life to get the info out of him, rather than a "no comment". A short burst of suffering to one man to save the life of a suffering victim? I do know that the "eye for an eye" outlook is unfashionable at the moment. However, I realise at this late stage the chances of her still being alive are slim to say the least.
I also don't hold with torturing someone who could ( even remotely ) possibly be innocent .

However , if there was some kind of truth drug ( sodium pentathol - I know nothing about the substance ) which could be administered to find out whether he knew anything ( only in what could be a life or death situation for a victim , such as exists in this case , or might have earlier in the week ) then I might look on it as a last resort .

Pontoneer

3,464 posts

74 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
db said:
While murdering someone for murdering another may appeal to some, it's neither deterrent nor punishment but purely an act of vengeance.

If you had committed a crime that called for your life to be spent in prison or your life to be ended, which would you chose?
I could imagine different people choosing each option .

The cost to the taxpayer of keeping someone in prison for life is significant .

La Liga

3,380 posts

44 months

dazco

3,781 posts

77 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Pontoneer said:
I also don't hold with torturing someone who could ( even remotely ) possibly be innocent .

However , if there was some kind of truth drug ( sodium pentathol - I know nothing about the substance ) which could be administered to find out whether he knew anything ( only in what could be a life or death situation for a victim , such as exists in this case , or might have earlier in the week ) then I might look on it as a last resort .
I don't know if the truth drug the CIA developed was sodium pentathol, but they stopped using their truth drug because it was very difficult to get the dosage correct. Too little and it did not work, too much and the recipient died, with a very small window of when it does work.

I believe the same drug is found in most travel sickness tablets.

andy_s

9,941 posts

147 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
dazco said:
Pontoneer said:
I also don't hold with torturing someone who could ( even remotely ) possibly be innocent .

However , if there was some kind of truth drug ( sodium pentathol - I know nothing about the substance ) which could be administered to find out whether he knew anything ( only in what could be a life or death situation for a victim , such as exists in this case , or might have earlier in the week ) then I might look on it as a last resort .
I don't know if the truth drug the CIA developed was sodium pentathol, but they stopped using their truth drug because it was very difficult to get the dosage correct. Too little and it did not work, too much and the recipient died, with a very small window of when it does work.

I believe the same drug is found in most travel sickness tablets.
And bottles of wine - In Vino Veritas...


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