Login | Register
SearchMy Stuff
My ProfileMy PreferencesMy Mates RSS Feed
1 2 ... 4 5
7
Reply to Topic
Author Discussion

SS2.

8,006 posts

123 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
daz3210 said:
Corroboration in that there was no way to confirm the speed involved in either case.
As far as the cyclist is concerned, who cares ? Whatever speed they may (or may not) have been travelling at is completely irrelevant as they could not be prosecuted for an offence of excess speed..

SS2.

8,006 posts

123 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Red 4 said:
As far as bicycles and speeding are concerned, yes.
Which, after all, is what this thread is referring to..

yellowjack

4,470 posts

51 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Aretnap said:
yellowjack said:
Aretnap said:
Potentially yes, someone riding a bike stupidly fast could be done for careless/dangerous cycling, or if they injured someone, under the ancient offence of wanton or furious driving. But the prosecution would have to show that the speed made the riding careless/dangerous/furious, not just that it was over the limit.
You should note that this little used law dates from 1861, and is called the "Offences Against the Person Act". The clue is in the name, as you would have to be involved in a collision, or in some other way "do or cause to be done any bodily harm to any person". This offence also applies as much to the driver of a motor vehicle, although the charge of dangerous driving, an offence created by section 2 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (as substituted by section 1 of the Road Traffic Act 1991), would be the more likely one used in any prosecution. The charge of "Wanton or Furious Driving" cannot therefore be used against a cyclist who simply cycles at what is adjudged to have been an excessive speed.
I know. That's why I said "if they injured someone".

yellowjack said:
Furthermore, the 1988 Act states "A person who drives a mechanically propelled vehicle dangerously on a road or other public place is guilty of an offence." Here the emphasis is on Mechanically Propelled Vehicle, meaning that it does not apply to cyclists.
Yes, but it also says elsewhere "a person who rides a cycle on a road dangerously is guilty of an offence" and "if a person rides a cycle on a road without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence". So the offences of careless and dangerous cycling seem to be essentially the same as careless or dangerous driving - it's just the penalties which are different.
From RTA 1988, as referenced in your link:

"In subsection (2) above “dangerous” refers to danger either of injury to any person or of serious damage to property;"

....which seems to suggest that the act of exceeding the speed limit (applying to motor vehicles) does not, in and of itself, actually constitute an offence. The burden of proof rests with the Police and CPS, who must persuade either a magistrate or a jury, beyond reasonable doubt, that any person is guilty of the offence of dangerous or careless cycling. It seems that the Police are often reluctant to pursue a prosecution for this type of offence when it involves the driver of a motor vehicle, except where injury or damage is caused, so it would come as no surprise if the prosecution of cyclists wasn't high on their list of priorities. After all, motor vehicles, when driven carelessly or dangerously, pose a greater risk to personal safety or property damage than any bicycle ridden in the same way.



Oh, and what you actually said was

Aretnap said:
"Potentially yes, someone riding a bike stupidly fast could be done for careless/dangerous cycling, OR if they injured someone"
the "OR" being significantly important in the context.

#hatetobeapedant banghead

Zeeky

2,519 posts

97 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
I read it as Aretnap referring to three offences. Careless,dangerous and wanton/furious, the third offence requiring injury. I think you are more confused than pedantic.

CDP

5,018 posts

139 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Liquid Knight said:
Okay to be fair when I'm cycling I stick to the speed limit myself because it would be unfair of me to break the laws other road users have to follow.
While I keep below the speed limit on a bike because I'm far too unfit to do otherwise.
Advertisement

XG332

3,896 posts

73 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
CDP said:
While I keep below the speed limit on a bike because I'm far too unfit to do otherwise.
My overweightness makes sticking to the limit down hilly roads difficult. Honest

XG332

3,896 posts

73 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
CDP said:
While I keep below the speed limit on a bike because I'm far too unfit to do otherwise.
My overweightness makes sticking to the limit down hilly roads difficult. Honest

Vipers

18,918 posts

113 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Nick1point9 said:
A lot of competent road bikes and with a competent rider can top 40mph, so what would happen if a cyclist was caught doing 40mph in a 20 or 30 zone?

Purely hypothetical, just interested.
Apart from the boys in the tour, anyone know who can do 40? Downhill I can reach 32 at a push.




smile

yellowjack

4,470 posts

51 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Vipers said:
Apart from the boys in the tour, anyone know who can do 40? Downhill I can reach 32 at a push.




smile
This video from the TdF shows a descent of the Cormet de Roselend at 100kmh or 62 mph http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tFpNsZXWgc and this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnYp4srEooI&fea... shows a cyclist 'drafting' an HGV at 80 to 90kmh ON THE FLAT !!! Both of these speeds are 'indicated' speeds on motor vehicle speedometers.

For the record, I regularly get up to 43mph on my road bike down the B3013 Beacon Hill Road, into Church Crookham/Fleet in Hampshire. That's toward the end of a 30 mile ride, on a compact (50t) geared bike. On my older steel framed roadie I had a standard (53t) gear, and once got up to 53mph, overtaking a Nissan Micra in the process. I only backed off after I hit a small joint in the tarmac, and one of my wheel reflectors parted company (loudly) with the spokes, and scared me half to death. I thought that important bits of the bike where falling off.....

.....the speed limit for the road is 50mph, by the way. Oh, and for anyone who has the patience, if you go into streetview, there is conclusive photographic proof of the streetview car committing the offence of overtaking whilst straddling double solid white lines, taken by it's own camera.

rotate

Edited by yellowjack on Friday 5th October 23:19

heebeegeetee

21,513 posts

133 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Liquid Knight said:
Okay to be fair when I'm cycling I stick to the speed limit myself because it would be unfair of me to break the laws other road users have to follow.
Riiiiight, so in your car you stick to HGV speed limits?

How is it unfair to break a law that you are not meant or required to follow?



Pontoneer

3,464 posts

71 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
CDP said:
I wouldn't. There's no indication of blame in those figures.

Bikes travel in near silence. It's all too easy for a pedestrian to step out but a bike has far more in the way of projections than cars. But riding on pavements and in pedestrianised areas is still a fair bet.
I did that myself the other day .

Out for a walk at lunchtime , I came to a point where the pavement narrowed to about a foot , and was overgrown with the uncut hedge taking up most of its width .

Being aware of cars due to hearing them , and the road being fairly wide , I did not bother to look before stepping just into the edge of the road - just as this bike silently passed and almost clipped my elbow with his handlebar .

My fault , I know , but had I been on my bike I rather think I'd have seen a pedestrian coming to the narrowing footpath and either moved out to give them space , or at least dinged my bell to let them know I was there - he did neither .

Liquid Knight

12,039 posts

68 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Vipers said:
Apart from the boys in the tour, anyone know who can do 40? Downhill I can reach 32 at a push.
I've managed to average 25mph on my commute and peaked at 34mph on a normal mountain bike with road tyres. That was in near gale force tail wind and my usual average speed is 18-ish mph, but I do always sprint the last mile and see 30+mph regularly.

On a recumbent it's possible to sit at 30mph and if the driven wheel is a 700C and the bike has the right ratios 40mph is quite easy.



Edited by Liquid Knight on Saturday 6th October 09:27

paranoid airbag

2,088 posts

44 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
CDP said:
Sir,

My other post pointed out that I wasn't too worried about cycles and that my concern was the aggression of some cyclists.

Something you have demonstrated in your posts far better than I could have described.
I'm sorry that you've had a bad experience with a cyclist (your classmate's dad), and I don't like idiot cyclists at all. In fact I hate them more for being a cyclist, as it means I get flak for what they do.

But I am also aware of the much bigger problem of idiot drivers who go about unchecked and that resources dealing with bad cyclists are usually going to mean resources not directed at bad drivers. Priotising a big problem over a small one isn't hypocrisy, it's perspective. Ignoring a big problem to prioritise a small one and claiming to be focussed on safety is hypocrisy. And I know you said 'some' but it comes across to me as the usual ill-informed diatribe against anyone who rides a bike that is embarassingly frequent on here. Sorry for misinterpreting if that wasn't your intention.

Edited by paranoid airbag on Saturday 6th October 16:24

Liquid Knight

12,039 posts

68 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
As a keen cyclist and driver I think percentage wise there are an equal amount of idiot drivers as pillock cyclists out there. But because there a fewer cyclist and idiot drivers are such a common part of our every day lives the cyclists get noticed more.

The knob thread in General Gassing a reasonable way of accessing this. For every knobhead on a bike rant there are about ten or twelve knobhead in a car rants so it works out about right-ish.

tigger1

7,663 posts

106 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Vipers said:
Apart from the boys in the tour, anyone know who can do 40? Downhill I can reach 32 at a push.

smile
On anything even marginally downhill I can hold ~30mph on a mtb, on my road bike 30mph on the flat (for a short distance) is easily do-able, 25mph is comfortable. Downhill, I've hit 50 on both bikes. There's a "slow down" flashing sign on the main road near where I live, I regularly trigger that (in a 40 limit).

If you can only hit 32 downhill, your brakes are stuck on
wink

daz3210

5,000 posts

125 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
tigger1 said:
On anything even marginally downhill I can hold ~30mph on a mtb, on my road bike 30mph on the flat (for a short distance) is easily do-able, 25mph is comfortable. Downhill, I've hit 50 on both bikes. There's a "slow down" flashing sign on the main road near where I live, I regularly trigger that (in a 40 limit).

If you can only hit 32 downhill, your brakes are stuck on
wink
Nope, I can just about manage 35 on a mtb downhill.

I bottle it at around the same speed on a road bike, self preservation is a big obstacle.



BMWBen

3,812 posts

86 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
tigger1 said:
Vipers said:
Apart from the boys in the tour, anyone know who can do 40? Downhill I can reach 32 at a push.

smile
On anything even marginally downhill I can hold ~30mph on a mtb, on my road bike 30mph on the flat (for a short distance) is easily do-able, 25mph is comfortable. Downhill, I've hit 50 on both bikes. There's a "slow down" flashing sign on the main road near where I live, I regularly trigger that (in a 40 limit).

If you can only hit 32 downhill, your brakes are stuck on
wink
I seem to top out at about 45 downhill on my roadbike. But then we haven't got many long steepish downhills that don't have nasty corners on them that demand either idiocy or a dab of brakes. 40 is a fairly normal downhill speed I think.

daz3210

5,000 posts

125 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
I have to ask, is there a maximum rating for speed on a bike tyre? Or is it just a case that you take your life in your hands going fast on them?

CDP

5,018 posts

139 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
paranoid airbag said:
CDP said:
Sir,

My other post pointed out that I wasn't too worried about cycles and that my concern was the aggression of some cyclists.

Something you have demonstrated in your posts far better than I could have described.
I'm sorry that you've had a bad experience with a cyclist (your classmate's dad), and I don't like idiot cyclists at all. In fact I hate them more for being a cyclist, as it means I get flak for what they do.

But I am also aware of the much bigger problem of idiot drivers who go about unchecked and that resources dealing with bad cyclists are usually going to mean resources not directed at bad drivers. Priotising a big problem over a small one isn't hypocrisy, it's perspective. Ignoring a big problem to prioritise a small one and claiming to be focussed on safety is hypocrisy. And I know you said 'some' but it comes across to me as the usual ill-informed diatribe against anyone who rides a bike that is embarassingly frequent on here. Sorry for misinterpreting if that wasn't your intention.

Edited by paranoid airbag on Saturday 6th October 16:24
No worries, as you say perspective matters.

BMWBen

3,812 posts

86 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
daz3210 said:
I have to ask, is there a maximum rating for speed on a bike tyre? Or is it just a case that you take your life in your hands going fast on them?
I wouldn't say that was necessarily an "or" relationship. biggrin

Looking at some of the strava times for descents in the surrey hills, I'd say that you definitely need to take your life in your hands for a "good" descent.
1 2 ... 4 5
7
Reply to Topic