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Papa Hotel

12,753 posts

68 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Somewhatfoolish said:
I don't think the rules should apply to anybody. I don't claim a special privilege for myself. I certainly won't be breaking the drugs law on the Isle of Man again but that's because it would be a stupid thing to do, not because it is morally wrong.
I've been reading back through some of your old threads, it's very apparent that you think you're on some higher plane than the lawmakers.

These idiots who have deemed drugs should be illegal, the fools who enforce the laws, they're wasting their lives on "decent" (your word in another thread) people like you. Honestly, you're a step away from some toothless junkie, waiting to die in a methadone queue.

Somewhatfoolish

Original Poster:

3,670 posts

72 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Grenoble said:
Out of interest, do you feel it was fair/unfair/etc?

Genuinely curious - aside from 10PS there haven't been many people who have come back on the forum to share their thoughts after a court case.
Separating the moral question, in terms of the law, to be honest I feel very very lucky indeed. I was very well treated by everyone involved (apart from one customs officer who told a duty advocate at the police station if I confessed then I would be put on a drug treatment scheme then reneged that promise). I would probably sound as if I had stockholm syndrome if I went on about it too long but seriously almost all the "enemy" (in the sense of people who were going to deprive me of my liberty etc) were great; the other customs officer was a good laugh, the police (who held me for a day during the search and didn't have anything to do with this really) were extremely friendly, the cell in the police station was pretty big with a toilet, the reading material was fine so you didn't get bored, everyone at the courthouse was very pleasant, even the deputy high bailiff sentencing me was pretty nice and she explained the circumstances very well indeed.

If I were to make any complaint at all it would be about the juristriction issue and the probation service. Basically, in the first hearing, she accepted juristriction over the matter and sent me off to get a pre sentence report. The pre sentence report itself was a great interview with (again!) a really nice guy who told me straight out it would be insane to send me to prison and he'd push for as low a sentence as possible. He eventually sent in a report recommending 100 hours of community service. Unfortunately, he obviously wasn't one of those people who were good at forms, and he completely fooked it up for all kinds of reasons, to the extent it was basically ignorable. I don't know if it was because of that, but in any case at the second hearing she was once again unsure if she had juristriction (this is the manx equivilant of an either way offence btw; she can sentence up to 1 year, anything else has to be sent on to general gaol which is the equivilant of crown court) and therefore invited submissions from both my lawyer and prosecution (the latter did not ask for that btw, it was entirely from her). This is what really cost me the money... while the prosecution submitted about 3 or 4 pages, my lawyer submitted 111, although admittedly most of that appendicies.

There's no way I would have been eligible for legal aid but I do feel that that kind of cost ordered for the court for an abtruse unpredictable reason should at least be somewhat publically funded.

But I don't want that to detract from the decent way I have been treated by every individual involved. Indeed just 24 hours ago I was sitting with a bunch of police in the pub giving me cake and wishing me good luck. I still do not believe that I have done anything wrong. It is about as fundamental a human right as you can get to take whatever substances you like, and in that very narrow sense I am incandescent about this. But at a more pragmatic, realistic, level - absolutely, I was treated more than fairly. In fact apparently a transcript of the case is going to be put into the "journal" or whatever you call it of Manx lawyers.

So anyhow, if you have a problem in the Isle of Man, you should definitely get John Wright as your advocate!

Somewhatfoolish

Original Poster:

3,670 posts

72 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Papa Hotel said:
I've been reading back through some of your old threads, it's very apparent that you think you're on some higher plane than the lawmakers.

These idiots who have deemed drugs should be illegal, the fools who enforce the laws, they're wasting their lives on "decent" (your word in another thread) people like you. Honestly, you're a step away from some toothless junkie, waiting to die in a methadone queue.
If you wanna argue drugs legislation, go start another thread. You could entitle it "Let's cause shedloads of death and misery because we hate junkies, then cause even more because we love binge drinkers"

As it is it is not a discussion I want in this thread, mostly for the reason no one ever changes their mind. I've been reading a very interesting book on moral philosophy recently, which I massively recommend to anyone. It explains why libertarians like me, conservatives (I'm guessing) like you, and left wingers find it so hard to understand one another. The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion.

I'm serious by the way, it's a great book.

Papa Hotel

12,753 posts

68 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
rofl

You'll end up inside, you'll never keep your nose clean (boom, boom) for the next two years. I wish you the best of luck, I'm sure the wing daddy will be impressed with your weird moral highground as you're sticking your fingers down your throat to bring your meth back up.

Somewhatfoolish

Original Poster:

3,670 posts

72 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Papa Hotel said:
rofl

You'll end up inside, you'll never keep your nose clean (boom, boom) for the next two years. I wish you the best of luck, I'm sure the wing daddy will be impressed with your weird moral highground as you're sticking your fingers down your throat to bring your meth back up.
Are you a betting man? I am very happy to put money on that.

P.S. I don't claim a moral highground over "toothless junkies". I claim one over you, but 'tis a difference of opinion. Read the book, seriously smile
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Papa Hotel

12,753 posts

68 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Go on then, I'm willing to indulge you. What is this moral highground you have over me?

Somewhatfoolish

Original Poster:

3,670 posts

72 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Papa Hotel said:
Go on then, I'm willing to indulge you. What is this moral highground you have over me?
For one, tolerance.

I may be wrong, but let me illustrate a scenario.

Someone (I toyed alternately between calling him Somewhatfoolish or Papa Hotel for comedic effect, but have decided to call him Fred) buys a chicken from a supermarket. Then he fks (using protection) his sister (who is 26, compis mentis and willing) and then the chicken (no protection). Then he cooks and eats it.

I would predict that you would have a problem with what Fred did. I may be wrong of course.

Somewhatfoolish

Original Poster:

3,670 posts

72 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
(to clarify, I cannot really objectively call it a high ground even though it feels that way to me; it's merely a difference of opinion - this is why I strongly recommend the book)

Art0ir

7,157 posts

56 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all

Somewhatfoolish

Original Poster:

3,670 posts

72 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Art0ir said:
Actually, yeah, I am being a bit silly. Mostly due to all the legal, socially acceptable, alcohol I've been imbibing today.

PH if you want this discussion move it to another thread, I am happy to engage...

Papa Hotel

12,753 posts

68 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Tolerance? That scenario illustrates a mixed-up mind, nothing more.

What's the worst way to start a sentence?
Getting raped.

Just a little prison humour there, you'll get used to it. Want another?

What's got 10 legs and 7 teeth?
The methadone queue.

Somewhatfoolish

Original Poster:

3,670 posts

72 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Papa Hotel said:
Tolerance? That scenario illustrates a mixed-up mind, nothing more.

What's the worst way to start a sentence?
Getting raped.

Just a little prison humour there, you'll get used to it. Want another?

What's got 10 legs and 7 teeth?
The methadone queue.
You illustrate my point perfectly smile

Papa Hotel

12,753 posts

68 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Somewhatfoolish said:
You illustrate my point perfectly smile
What point? Your story about incest and chicken sex?

sodslaw

189 posts

25 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Somewhatfoolish said:
Opium and cannabis, from silk road (as well as dihydrocodeine from airmail chemist).
surely you were pretty protected using tor? vnp etc?

Weren't discrete with payment, communication, address or something?


or it got picked up at customs? and admitted..


Interested how you goof'd



edit: you sent it DIRECTLY TO YOUR ADDRESS?!?

Edited by sodslaw on Saturday 6th October 01:50

Papa Hotel

12,753 posts

68 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Phone battery dying, we'll pick this up tomorrow if you can remember what killer point you were trying to make. Something about me being intolerant because I don't like incest and bestiality whereas recreational drug users do...?

Somewhatfoolish

Original Poster:

3,670 posts

72 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
sodslaw said:
surely you were pretty protected using tor? vnp etc?

Weren't discrete with payment, communication, address or something?


or it got picked up at customs? and admitted..


Interested how you goof'd



edit: you sent it DIRECTLY TO YOUR ADDRESS?!?

Edited by sodslaw on Saturday 6th October 01:50
It was picked up at customs, yeah. Note that manx customs are several orders of magnitude stricter than UK customs, it transpires essentially every package is inspected! It could have been defeated by a no comment interview, but I was acting on legal advice (by a duty solicitor, not going to make that mistake again) that a full confession would mean referral to a drug addiction scheme. Also, co operation meant I got the computers back asap and I needed them for work.

There was no problem with TOR security and had I not explained the precise mechanism nothing would have been picked up.

Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Saturday 6th October 02:02

Somewhatfoolish

Original Poster:

3,670 posts

72 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Papa Hotel said:
Phone battery dying, we'll pick this up tomorrow if you can remember what killer point you were trying to make. Something about me being intolerant because I don't like incest and bestiality whereas recreational drug users do...?
The point is not that recreational drug users like incest and bestiality, it's that libertarians, such as me, will support the right of someone to engage in incest and (necro)bestiality (the chicken was dead if that wasn't clear) because no harm is done. That's not the same as approving of it. There's no moral judgement one way or the other.

It was quite obvious to me that you would disapprove of it. Honestly, buy the book. I think if enough people read it it would make a huge difference to social discourse.

For clarification, the book does not set out to argue that either position is "right". Reading it will in no way change your mind about the correct course of action. It instead shows how our moral judgements come about, going right back to the emergence of humankind tens or hundreds of thousands of years ago but right to the present day as well, and really helps all sides understand one another.

WeirdNeville

5,878 posts

101 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
I'm terribly confused Ted.....

You got illegal substances delivered to your front door, and you wanted to know if it would be acceptable to take some other, slightly less illegal substances into court with you in case you went to prison? What part of the last 12 months of your life have seemed like a well thought out plan?

"Most apt username of 2012 goes to....."

sodslaw

189 posts

25 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
WeirdNeville said:
I'm terribly confused Ted.....

You got illegal substances delivered to your front door, and you wanted to know if it would be acceptable to take some other, slightly less illegal substances into court with you in case you went to prison? What part of the last 12 months of your life have seemed like a well thought out plan?

"Most apt username of 2012 goes to....."
If the police found you in possession of testogel without a prescription they would not take it from you.

This guy HAD a prescription.


Not even an eyelid would bat.

WeirdNeville

5,878 posts

101 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Well, it would have been taken off of him.
And it doesn't look brilliant, does it?
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