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TooLateForAName

Original Poster:

2,608 posts

72 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Looking at the news this morning the CC of Cleveland police has been sacked, I know the CC of North Yorks has been in bother and also Cumbrian.

Just how many of the senior police officers across the county are in trouble? What does this say about the people making it to the top of the service at the moment.

Will things get worse with police commissioners?

XCP

12,282 posts

116 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
As I understand it the CC was sacked for nepotism in relation to a job application. This has always happened and will continue to do so in very many walks of life.
It says a lot of the standards expected that he has been sacked. I only got my first job on leaving school because the boss went to the same school as I did !

ewenm

27,006 posts

133 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Just as dodgy as those in senior roles in any other area.

9mm

2,234 posts

98 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
ewenm said:
Just as dodgy as those in senior roles in any other area.
Scarily, probably true. But since the Police have vastly more power than most other groups we need to be particularly intolerant of failings in their ranks. The local DIY chain store manager may be a bit dodgy but it's unlikely he can do as much damage as the local Super.

It's good to see some sackings at a senior level instead of the more common early retirements. Prosecutions would be even better.

TooLateForAName

Original Poster:

2,608 posts

72 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
XCP - as I understand it he's also under criminal investigation (don't know why) and is judged to have lied to the IPCC.

ewanm - but we expect better from the police don't we?

9mm - quite agree.

It seems to be common when I read police blogs that those on the ground have little respect for the political manoeuvrings of senior (and aspirant senior) officers.

This isn't intended as a plod bashing thread - I am interested in knowing why so many senior officers seem to be in trouble. Is the culture changing? What are the drivers?


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streaky

19,311 posts

137 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all

XCP

12,282 posts

116 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
TooLateForAName said:
XCP - as I understand it he's also under criminal investigation (don't know why) and is judged to have lied to the IPCC.

ewanm - but we expect better from the police don't we?

9mm - quite agree.

It seems to be common when I read police blogs that those on the ground have little respect for the political manoeuvrings of senior (and aspirant senior) officers.

This isn't intended as a plod bashing thread - I am interested in knowing why so many senior officers seem to be in trouble. Is the culture changing? What are the drivers?
Its all a bit odd. If he is under investigation why hold the discipline hearing now
. confused

Elroy Blue

6,718 posts

80 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
ACPO are Political animals and have become completely removed from day to day Policing. The gulf between them and the rank and file is almost as great as that between the Police and Government.

The Chief Constable of Greater Manchester's Political address at the funeral of one of his Officers is one example. It caused massive outrage amongst serving Officers, but he won't give a damn.

Red Devil

6,364 posts

96 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
TooLateForAName said:
Looking at the news this morning the CC of Cleveland police has been sacked, I know the CC of North Yorks has been in bother and also Cumbrian.
Same 'favours for friends' offence that saw Graham Maxwell's departure from North Yorkshire. As Price has been sacked, hopefully he doesn't qualify for a similar ~quarter of a million 'golden goodbye' that Maxwell was entitled to under the terms of his contract.

TooLateForAName said:
Just how many of the senior police officers across the county are in trouble?
Four more under investigation by the IPCC - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonsh...

TooLateForAName said:
What does this say about the people making it to the top of the service at the moment.
That senior policemen spend far too much time in the company of politicians and have acquired bad habits from them?

TooLateForAName said:
Will things get worse with police commissioners?
I reckon that will depend on the quality of candidated coming forward. The new system puts a great deal of power and influence in the hands of one individual. It is yet another concept imported from the USA. These often do not translate well when applied to the UK.

We already have one de facto PCC. Boris Johnson. The thought of replicants across the country, from whichever side of the political divide they emanate, does not fill me with confidence.

speedyguy

2,251 posts

91 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Elroy Blue said:
ACPO are Political animals and have become completely removed from day to day Policing. The gulf between them and the rank and file is almost as great as that between the Police and Government.

The Chief Constable of Greater Manchester's Political address at the funeral of one of his Officers is one example. It caused massive outrage amongst serving Officers, but he won't give a damn.
From sources who know him personally he's was more into publicity than policing

ewenm

27,006 posts

133 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
TooLateForAName said:
ewanm - but we expect better from the police don't we?
Do we? I'd hope they'd be the most moral, law-abiding, example-setting group but they are human. Power corrupts and all that. I expect high standards from everyone (including myself).

clockworks

1,000 posts

33 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Can anyone rise to the top of their chosen profession while staying squeaky clean, and being a thoroughly decent chap?

Red 4

2,515 posts

75 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Sir Norman Bettison, currently CC of West Yorks has announced his decision to retire in March.

His decision comes after the findings of the Hillsborough report. Sir Norman was a Chief Inspector at South Yorkshire Police at the time of Hillsborough and was critical of Liverpool fans.

Strangely, he was also CC of Merseyside Police when he was just plain Norman.

£££££££££ Pension awaits.

RtdRacer

1,274 posts

89 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
ewenm said:
TooLateForAName said:
ewanm - but we expect better from the police don't we?
Do we? I'd hope they'd be the most moral, law-abiding, example-setting group but they are human. Power corrupts and all that. I expect high standards from everyone (including myself).
I dunno. I expect 'more' somehow from anyone involved in the Justice system. Police officers, Judges, Magistrates, Coroners, other Offices of the Court.

I think there's a particular harm done by one of them being seen to be corrupt.

Lawyers...well...there's a different thing. ;-) Seriously, because our adversarial system means they have to 'do their best' for their clients, means they *have* to be partisan.

La Liga

3,379 posts

44 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Red 4 said:
Sir Norman Bettison, currently CC of West Yorks has announced his decision to retire in March.

His decision comes after the findings of the Hillsborough report. Sir Norman was a Chief Inspector at South Yorkshire Police at the time of Hillsborough and was critical of Liverpool fans.

Strangely, he was also CC of Merseyside Police when he was just plain Norman.

£££££££££ Pension awaits.
Quite right he should get his pension. The 'outrage' surrounding his statement is comical. Attention like this should be focused on getting rid of bent cops of all ranks, not one who has done great things for the service as he has. Here's the statement, with context, that requires him to resign:

Sir Norman said:
"The more we learn about events, the more we may understand. I sat through every single day of the Taylor Inquiry, in the summer of 1989. I learned so much. Taylor was right in saying that the disaster was caused, mainly, through a lack of police control. Fans behaviour, to the extent that it was relevant at all, made the job of the police, in the crush outside Leppings Lane turnstiles, harder than it needed to be. But it didn't cause the disaster any more than the sunny day that encouraged people to linger outside the stadium as kick off approached."

Red 4

2,515 posts

75 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
La Liga said:
Quite right he should get his pension. The 'outrage' surrounding his statement is comical. Attention like this should be focused on getting rid of bent cops of all ranks, not one who has done great things for the service as he has.
Great things ? Such as ? Very unpopular CC whilst at Merseyside. Retired and took a job at Centrex as Chief Exec.

Appointed CC of West Yorks in 2007.

Was part of the team that "investigated" Hillsborough whilst at South Yorks.

IPCC investigation into Sir Norman's role during the investigation is on-going.




La Liga

3,379 posts

44 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
His counter-terrorism work for a start.


XCP

12,282 posts

116 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Frankly I don't blame him for retiring.
Compared to what Chief Constables used to get up to in the 'good old days' he seems to have caused little enough grief.

brenflys777

1,409 posts

65 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
I recently had reason to look through a former colleagues paperwork regarding a medical retirement from the force following an exceptionally nasty incident on duty which was treated as attempt murder of the officer.

I was astounded at some of the relatively unsupportive comments from her supervision. As these comments worked up the chain the responses became harsher with each rank. The CC at the time was almost universally despised. His written response to the personel and divisional command was blunt and totally supportive. It actually made me smile to see the total change in responses/attitude as the directive from the Chief went back down the chain. I could never understand how that particular Chief had been considered worthy of the role, but with some information which will never be public it has completely changed my assessment.

I mention this only because it has opened my eyes as to just how much the CC does that we the public or rank are/were unaware of.

REALIST123

4,176 posts

41 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
brenflys777 said:
I recently had reason to look through a former colleagues paperwork regarding a medical retirement from the force following an exceptionally nasty incident on duty which was treated as attempt murder of the officer.

I was astounded at some of the relatively unsupportive comments from her supervision. As these comments worked up the chain the responses became harsher with each rank. The CC at the time was almost universally despised. His written response to the personel and divisional command was blunt and totally supportive. It actually made me smile to see the total change in responses/attitude as the directive from the Chief went back down the chain. I could never understand how that particular Chief had been considered worthy of the role, but with some information which will never be public it has completely changed my assessment.

I mention this only because it has opened my eyes as to just how much the CC does that we the public or rank are/were unaware of.
Your post does nothing positive, just highlights the pointless bureaucracy that the public has to subsidise.

Considering that, statistically, only a few of the bent senior BIB are being 'brought to justice', it appears to be pretty rancid up there.

The sooner we have elected commissioners the better. If any honest candidates canbe found, at least.
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