Farmers shooting dogs !

[GokTweed]

[quote=Who me ?]
Hopefully the dog owner would have seen two rams in the field and thought hmmm maybe i'll skip this one. They have bigger bks than brains and think they are hard as nails so naturally want to prove it. Think of them as the white van men of the animal world
[/quote]
This WAS not in a field. This was on the open road/ down a lane , etc. No dog was safe from these .These two wandered the village taking on all comers. Our local bank manager had a nice Rover ( think it was 2000), and polished it till you could see face in it. Unfortunately ,ram saw his face in it ,and decided he had a rival .
[/quote]

Ahh i see hilariously unfortunate for the bank manager i think. I assume the farmer didn't do anything about it?

[telecat]

See roamingh sheep a lot in the North Yorks Moors. Rosedale Abbey is a hoot when there are a few about. I've yet to work out if the Grates around the village are to keep them out or in?

[gruffalo]

try walking in the lakes, bloody sheep every where and not in fields, just roaming the fells.

What happens in this instance if a dog takes one of these sheep as the farmer is not showing any resposibility to secure his live stock?

[Marlin45]

It is more than likely common land? So if the farmer is about then that could result in one dead dog if it is causing distress to the livestock......it also shows that the dog walker is not taking any responsibilty for their dog actions either?

[Agrispeed]

well, I tried to not comment here, but i have to say this thread is really depressing. People fail to take into account the bond and care farmers have with their animals, and what they do to look after them. - for many dairy farmers they spend more time with their cows than their families. I know that our cows are all individuals, and are all my best friends, they say hello, they can be grumpy, they are actually very like my dog, which we trained not to attack!

Anyway, lets look at the simply cash side of things.

A sheep can be sold for over £200 each.
A sheep can have an abortion if it is stressed too much - an average of 2 lambs means that the farmer can loose £600... Plus vets bills. + any other stressed sheep...

A dairy heifer can cost upto £22,000, but lets say £2,000 - again thats a lot of cash. + vets bills.

We can't afford for you to let your dogs maul our livestock. sorry.

Training your dog is not that difficult, and if you risk it your dog can be shot. and it will be your fault. No one but you.

I'm afraid that people do seem to be alienated from food production and the countryside, as several threads here show. It is very sad, and something that can never end well.


(whoever said a .22 will kill a dog is an idiot - a .223 is necessary for foxes at over 100 yards, and a .22 is accurate to about 80 yards. a .177 maybe 150Yrds.)

I know someone who is actually a farmer, and his Jack Russel escaped and attacked a ewe, it was shot, No one complained, its the rule, no if's no buts, no hate for the other farmer, its just the way it is, You shouldn't expect different, and the same would happen vice versa. However the people who created uproar about it were the in the local estate (built next to a very nice village) who decided it was unfair. Luckily the otehr farmer was a sensible chap and ignored it, but it was a very unpleasant situation at the time, created out of peoples ignorance.

GokTweed said:

Ahh i see hilariously unfortunate for the bank manager i think. I assume the farmer didn't do anything about it?

We have stock insurance for damage to property etc ours it upto £3 Million in personal injury etc - even more on the tractor £5m or 10m from memory.


Now a few words on safety.

Never get in a field with cows and calves with a dog.
If cows run at you drop the lead (the dog will be on a lead) and run away from it.
Never get between a cow and calf.

Cows can kill you quite easily, they weigh a lot and might not even mean it. I know of one apprentice on a sheep farm who was butted by a sheep protecting her lambs, it ruptured a artery and he bled to death, on his own.

And, never, ever let your dog crap in a field. ever. it's disgusting and very dangerous.

Also never go into a field with machinery in it, and never walk through a crop, as someone found out recently, when trying to save their dog, and lost their leg in a forage harvester. - If it wasn't for the quick thinking of the driver, they would've died.

The countryside isn't idyllic, it's a workplace, and please respect it as such

sorry for the mixed up post

Edited by Agrispeed on Monday 29th October 16:47

Edited by Agrispeed on Monday 29th October 16:49

[gruffalo]

Marlin45 said:

It is more than likely common land? So if the farmer is about then that could result in one dead dog if it is causing distress to the livestock......it also shows that the dog walker is not taking any responsibilty for their dog actions either?

That is interesting as commonland has public access and so farmer would/should be done for using his shot gun in a public place.

Not wanting to argue just fed up that farmers seem to be able to take over large area's of land not belonging to them and with public access and in doing so override the ability of other to walk their dog off the lead, trained dog or not or in the case of cows with calves to go there at all without fear of death.

[rudecherub]

gruffalo said:

Marlin45 said:

It is more than likely common land? So if the farmer is about then that could result in one dead dog if it is causing distress to the livestock......it also shows that the dog walker is not taking any responsibilty for their dog actions either?

That is interesting as commonland has public access and so farmer would/should be done for using his shot gun in a public place.

Not wanting to argue just fed up that farmers seem to be able to take over large area's of land not belonging to them and with public access and in doing so override the ability of other to walk their dog off the lead, trained dog or not or in the case of cows with calves to go there at all without fear of death.

Common land you mean common grazing land where the rights are held by certain individuals to graze their livestock on it, mainly uplands ie fells in the UK

Idiot Labour government with it's right to roam, bloody nonsense I'll roam through your flowerbeds and garden and see how you like it.

[eldar]

gruffalo said:

try walking in the lakes, bloody sheep every where and not in fields, just roaming the fells.

What happens in this instance if a dog takes one of these sheep as the farmer is not showing any resposibility to secure his live stock?

Up on the fells? Do you really want to have hundreds of miles of barbed wire tripping up walkers.

Free sheep, mostly herdwick, worked well for hundreds of years, and still does. Most walkers are sensible, so dogs aren't a big problem.

[gruffalo]

No just asking the question.

However the farmer is farming land that is not his so does a farmer have a right over any other member of the public?

[rudecherub]

gruffalo said:

No just asking the question.

However the farmer is farming land that is not his so does a farmer have a right over any other member of the public?

Yes because the rights to common land are tied to certain farms in the case with fells, and IIRC in the case of lowland commons it's usually residents of a village/parish.

Hence you buy a farm with fell rights + you'd normally buy the sheep too, since the sheep are heathed, ie generational knowledge of the boundaries of the fells and don't wander beyond them.

This was one of the problems caused by the Foot & Mouth cull as entire flocks of heathed sheep were wiped out, and any replacements weren't heathed ie didn't know their boundaries.

[Willy Nilly]

gruffalo said:

try walking in the lakes, bloody sheep every where and not in fields, just roaming the fells.

What happens in this instance if a dog takes one of these sheep as the farmer is not showing any resposibility to secure his live stock?

The sheep in the lakes are territorial. I used to work for someone that was from there, it's a long time ago and I'm trying to remember.....

When you take over the land, the sheep come with it. It is not like lowland farms with fences that try to push production to the maximum. 1 sheep, 1 lamb each year is all they want.

You want to round up your sheep for what ever? Either give them a whistle or send the Border Collie after them and your sheep go one way and next doors go the other way.

These sheep are very hardy and don't do well on lowland farms, but they ARE taken care of. DO NOT let your dogs worry them.

I was told that some farms in the area were the person I used to work for was from were having a lot of problems with dogs from town. The old pack mentality kicked in and they went on mass hunting sheep. Thus didn't go down well. The police were informed and nobody came forward to take responsibility for the dogs, so they waited for them and shot the lot. The problem stopped.

Sure, you can put and actual figure on what the cost of the actual sheep that has been hurt or injured is and maybe the more responsible dog owner will seek to compensate the farmer for his losses. But the sheep didn't do anything wrong, it was just minding it's own business it its own field, eating its grass, when some idiot with an out of control dog came along and allowed the dog to maim or kill it. How many people would just brush off as bad luck some idiot coming into their place of work and causing havoc? Put the money and the farmer to one side and remember that the sheep are the innocent party(s) here, they have no voice, no choice and can't fight back.

Just keep your dog on a lead and all will be well.

This is what can happen when you have an out of control dog

http://www.thisisdorset.co.uk/Warning-walkers-man-...

Man lets dog off lead. Dog runs into crop of maize. Maize being harvested. Man walks into maize into path of forage harvester. Man lucky to only loose leg.

The countryside is a big green industrial estate, it's not a theme park.

[gruffalo]

rudecherub said:

gruffalo said:

No just asking the question.

However the farmer is farming land that is not his so does a farmer have a right over any other member of the public?

Yes because the rights to common land are tied to certain farms in the case with fells, and IIRC in the case of lowland commons it's usually residents of a village/parish.

Hence you buy a farm with fell rights + you'd normally buy the sheep too, since the sheep are heathed, ie generational knowledge of the boundaries of the fells and don't wander beyond them.

This was one of the problems caused by the Foot & Mouth cull as entire flocks of heathed sheep were wiped out, and any replacements weren't heathed ie didn't know their boundaries.

OK I understand how it works now, thanks.

[Agrispeed]

gruffalo said:

rudecherub said:

gruffalo said:

No just asking the question.

However the farmer is farming land that is not his so does a farmer have a right over any other member of the public?

Yes because the rights to common land are tied to certain farms in the case with fells, and IIRC in the case of lowland commons it's usually residents of a village/parish.

Hence you buy a farm with fell rights + you'd normally buy the sheep too, since the sheep are heathed, ie generational knowledge of the boundaries of the fells and don't wander beyond them.

This was one of the problems caused by the Foot & Mouth cull as entire flocks of heathed sheep were wiped out, and any replacements weren't heathed ie didn't know their boundaries.

OK I understand how it works now, thanks.

Its actually very cool to see, they know exactly where to go, and what rocks can be climbed etc