Car Exhaust Noise

[PV7998]

Monkey boy 1 said:

I have drop on my doorstep a court summons for Feb 2013 about "Using a vehicle with an exhaust system that has been modifies as to increase the noise made by the escape of exhaust gases"

My issue now is that, Yes I know that the exhaust is a modified exhaust and, Yes it is louder than a standard OEM system, but it still does not prove that the system is illegal as the Police check was done incorrectly and not in accordance to ISO5130.[/footnote]

IANAL but http://www.norfolk.police.uk/safetyadvice/roadsafe...

"Big bore and sports exhaust systems are usually fitted to increase the sound emitted and this contravenes the Type Approval of the vehicle, which is an offence. There is no requirement for police to measure the sound level from the exhaust system, it only requires an opinion that the system is not standard and that it is noisier than a normal vehicle of the same specification"

Which doesn't sound very promising.

Edited by PV7998 on Sunday 7th April 19:37

[PV7998]

Here's the legislation on the noise levels:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regul...

and here's the legislation specifically about modified exhausts:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regul...

[Baron Greenback]

Looks good for kit cars! As what is normal for the car :-)

[Pontoneer]

Johnnytheboy said:

AFAIK I bought one of the last standard pattern exhausts for the mk1 XR2 last autumn.

When this goes my only option will be a big pipe aftermarket effort.

P D Gough hold patterns for most cars back to the 1920's and will build you a one of system either in mild steel or stainless with either delivery included in the quoted price , or fitting if you choose to go to them . I went to them for the system for my 500SEL following recommendations from several members of the MBOC .

My only connection with them is as a satisfied customer , you can find out more here

http://www.pdgough.com/

[SlimJim16v]

A few thoughts.

I may be wrong, but I don't think all vehicle parts need to be Type Approved in the UK.

Reading the C&U regs, it does say the exhaust cannot be modified to produce more noise. It doesn't say the exhaust cannot be REPLACED by another system which produces more noise.

[GC8]

Yes, the plod have bridged that gap with their assertion that a different exhaust is fitted only in order to make more noise. Nonsense of course, unless youre a Daily Mail stalwart.

[streaky]

SlimJim16v said:

A few thoughts.

I may be wrong, but I don't think all vehicle parts need to be Type Approved in the UK.

Reading the C&U regs, it does say the exhaust cannot be modified to produce more noise. It doesn't say the exhaust cannot be REPLACED by another system which produces more noise.

Reference is to an exhaust system ... such runs from the manifold(s) to the tip of the exhaust pipe(s). Replacement of any part of the system by a non-standard part is 'modification' of the system.

Streaky

[liner33]

The law doesn't state the exhaust can't be replaced if it did that would make all non oem exhausts illegal

It says clearly the system must not be modified to make more noise that's a very different thing

[jith]

IANAL but http://www.norfolk.police.uk/safetyadvice/roadsafe...

"Big bore and sports exhaust systems are usually fitted to increase the sound emitted and this contravenes the Type Approval of the vehicle, which is an offence. There is no requirement for police to measure the sound level from the exhaust system, it only requires an opinion that the system is not standard and that it is noisier than a normal vehicle of the same specification"

Which doesn't sound very promising.

Edited by PV7998 on Sunday 7th April 19:37

[/quote]

I think whoever wrote that piece for the police needs a course in motor vehicle engineering. Performance exhausts are usually fitted to enhance performance; the noise is a by product of that.

In actual fact, increasing the bore actually makes the exhaust quieter, not louder. You have to either redesign the baffling or remove some of the silencer boxes to make it louder. Some of the expensive aftermarket German exhausts I have fitted are actually quieter than the standard.

I have to say that I hate loud exhausts, but what I don't understand is the fact that they are permitted on a road car if they are such a public nuisance. Why not just ban them altogether?

Incidentally, some of the exhausts I have seen from the likes of the song and dance men seriously contravene type approval, simply because they're crap!!


J

[waynedear]

Put a complaint in straight away before the next court date to the Police Complaints authority, also check your which local Councillor sits on the PCA and get to them, expect to be told by the Councillor he will say he can do nothing as there is an ongoing complaint, still tell them the story.

[Monkey boy 1]

Just to add confusion to the case, remembering that I am questioning the way in which my car was checked and the interpretation of the results not the fact that it has an aftermarket exhaust. I have just re-read the "Road vehicles Construction & use regulations 1986" Yes it states an 82dB(A) limit, but then you have to then hunt for the method of measurement for this test. Now this is hidden away on Commission Directive 81/334/EEC Paragraph 5.2.2.4.
Basically the 82dB(A) test as quotes in the Construction & use regs can only be attained in a drive by test, not a static test.
This has to be done on an approved Test track.

The static test as used by the Police as laid out in ISO5130 does not have a results table, so the figures the Police are using are cobbled together from various different sources to make their own standard up.

The plot thickens

[herewego]

What's the actual charge, is it non compliance with construction and use regulations or something else? I'm just thinking that if they ask you in court if the exhaust system contravenes the construction and use regulations in that you have modified the exhaust to be louder than original then you would have to say yes so how would that affect the charge.

[PV7998]

liner33 said:

The law doesn't state the exhaust can't be replaced if it did that would make all non oem exhausts illegal

It says clearly the system must not be modified to make more noise that's a very different thing

I understand what you're saying but it doesn't look like Norfolk Police interpret the legislation like that. Going by what they say, any non-OEM system could be considered for an offence, and all they need is an officer's opinion that it's louder than an OEM system - this I assume would allow Kwik-Fit and all the other standard spec pattern systems to be OK.
I'd be interested to know what they'd do with an aftermarket system that was louder but was still inside the acceptable noise levels.

[liner33]

It's clear Norfolk Police have norfolking idea

[PV7998]

Maybe....but they're not the only Police Force that are saying this. It's made me think that if and when I next buy an exhaust system I will look closely for something in the sales blurb like "No increase in noise level/built to standard pattern" or something that I could produce either to the Police or to a Court to say that it isn't "altered so as to increase the noise made by the escape of exhaust gases"

[herewego]

Monkey boy 1 said:

Just to add confusion to the case, remembering that I am questioning the way in which my car was checked and the interpretation of the results not the fact that it has an aftermarket exhaust. I have just re-read the "Road vehicles Construction & use regulations 1986" Yes it states an 82dB(A) limit, but then you have to then hunt for the method of measurement for this test. Now this is hidden away on Commission Directive 81/334/EEC Paragraph 5.2.2.4.
Basically the 82dB(A) test as quotes in the Construction & use regs can only be attained in a drive by test, not a static test.
This has to be done on an approved Test track.

The static test as used by the Police as laid out in ISO5130 does not have a results table, so the figures the Police are using are cobbled together from various different sources to make their own standard up.

The plot thickens

You must have the test report from the police? It must show the rpm used for the test? You have a copy of standard ISO 5130. Can you find a statement for your car of the max. rated engine speed? If you highlight the relevant data in these documents and show it to the CPS they may cancel the prosecution and save you a lot of time.

[Monkey boy 1]

herewego said:

You must have the test report from the police? It must show the rpm used for the test? You have a copy of standard ISO 5130. Can you find a statement for your car of the max. rated engine speed? If you highlight the relevant data in these documents and show it to the CPS they may cancel the prosecution and save you a lot of time.

In answer to the above.
1.Yes I have the test report from the police.
2.Yes it shows the RPM at which they tested it. (5250RPM)
3.Yes I have a copy of ISO5130
4.My car, max power is delivered at 6850RPM, Red line is 7000RPM
ISO5130 Shows that a car with max power of between 5000 & 7500RPM should be tested at 3750RPM. (NOT 5250 as Plod did it at)

There are no figures for dB(A) output in the ISO5130 test procedure. The Road Traffic Construction & use Reg 1986 refers to a different test, that of which is a drive by test. NOT as static test.

So the facts I have:
Police statements has incorrect colour of my vehicle
Police statement has incorrect registration mark of my vehicle (court papers have correct Veh.Reg)
Police test cert states different RPM target to the quoted ISO5130 test.
Police form states dB on their form, it should state the correct dB(A) - There is a difference, believe me

The initial Police ticket was given out as "A vehicle exhaust making excessive noise", The Court papers say "Use of a motor vehicle with an altered silencer / exhaust" as in Construction & use regs 54 (2) Every exhaust system and silencer shall be maintained in good and efficient working order and shall not be altered so as to increase the noise made by the escape of exhaust gases.

[GC8]

Id still expect the mags to find you guilty leaving you needing to appeal to the crown court.

[herewego]

Monkey boy 1 said:

herewego said:

You must have the test report from the police? It must show the rpm used for the test? You have a copy of standard ISO 5130. Can you find a statement for your car of the max. rated engine speed? If you highlight the relevant data in these documents and show it to the CPS they may cancel the prosecution and save you a lot of time.

In answer to the above.
1.Yes I have the test report from the police.
2.Yes it shows the RPM at which they tested it. (5250RPM)
3.Yes I have a copy of ISO5130
4.My car, max power is delivered at 6850RPM, Red line is 7000RPM
ISO5130 Shows that a car with max power of between 5000 & 7500RPM should be tested at 3750RPM. (NOT 5250 as Plod did it at)

There are no figures for dB(A) output in the ISO5130 test procedure. The Road Traffic Construction & use Reg 1986 refers to a different test, that of which is a drive by test. NOT as static test.

So the facts I have:
Police statements has incorrect colour of my vehicle
Police statement has incorrect registration mark of my vehicle (court papers have correct Veh.Reg)
Police test cert states different RPM target to the quoted ISO5130 test.
Police form states dB on their form, it should state the correct dB(A) - There is a difference, believe me

The initial Police ticket was given out as "A vehicle exhaust making excessive noise", The Court papers say "Use of a motor vehicle with an altered silencer / exhaust" as in Construction & use regs 54 (2) Every exhaust system and silencer shall be maintained in good and efficient working order and shall not be altered so as to increase the noise made by the escape of exhaust gases.

The colour and reg are not of much interest, the relevant issue is the test rpm. As I say I'd get an appointment with the cps, show them the docs. and ask them to drop it on these grounds because I don't think you have an original exhaust? and you don't want them asking in court if you've had a sports exhaust put on do you?

[GC8]

They cant make up that it was only fitted in order to make more noise though, which appears to be Norfolk Constabularys line. Thats a fabrication intended to expediate prosecution.