Free Speech (in the UK) an Oxymoron?

[Cyrus1971]

I think it is fairer to say no where on earth has complete freedom of speech since there are limits and controls in every single country. When you get even a smidgeon of limits then you sacrifice the freedom. So let's accept that and move on. Kant, Wittgenstein and Echo would have a field day with some of the logic in this thread.

The real debate (for me) is in the lack of a hierarchy of rights. What is the superior right ? The right to speak as freely as we legislate and allow our citizens to do, or the right to not hear something or the right to be offended ? The absence of this hierarchy cause the friction we see in society, though it does also maintain debate and options to change with society too.

The right to speech stems from more important purpose to have as fair and functioning democracy as we can. So for me the principle purpose of the right to say what you like has to be examined according to it’s criticality to the society we want. That will inform the hierarchy I mention very easily in my opinion.

[anonymous-user]

I would prefer the US approach, in which the First Amendment right does come close to the top in the hierarchy of democratic foundations. The right is not unqualified or indefeasible, but it should prevail, absent a compelling countervailing factor.

[anonymous-user]

More absurd over reaction to someone being stupid:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-19...

Four months for wearing a nasty tee shirt, FFS.

[XCP]

Breadvan72 said:

More absurd over reaction to someone being stupid:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-19...

Four months for wearing a nasty tee shirt, FFS.

Much previous?

[anonymous-user]

Previous dodgy tee shirt wearing? Who knows?

[anonymous-user]

On reflection, he deserves five years for bad grammar/style. "One pig fewer" would have been correct.

[XCP]

Well he got 4 months for breach of a supervision order re drugs so I thought the t shirt business might just be a concurrent 'add on'. I doubt it would be consecutive, do you?

[anonymous-user]

Probably not, although the article is unclear in that. If the only breach of the supervision order was the so called public order offence, then I still object to this as excessive.

[Milky Joe]

6 weeks to reflect on being a cretin, can't say I object.

[icetea]

Milky Joe said:

6 weeks to reflect on being a cretin, can't say I object.

You'll object when its you locked up because someone else managed to take offence at something you said/wore.

[Milky Joe]

icetea said:

You'll object when its you locked up because someone else managed to take offence at something you said/wore.

I'll take my chances.

[Cyrus1971]

Breadvan72 said:

More absurd over reaction to someone being stupid:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-19...

Four months for wearing a nasty tee shirt, FFS.

Absolutely perfect example of what I am talking about. This man does not have to like Policemen, he does not have to be polite, correct, informed or hold the behavioural and cultural standards of anyone but himself. He can carry the most heinous hatred inside of himself and if he has the courage to do so wear what the hell what he likes exposing that to the world. This is a total destruction of his right to be a cock. Fighting the imposition of supposed "societal" norms on the anyone is something I will stand up for, regardless of the taste, judgement or wisdom of the muppet.

[anonymous-user]

I agree. People have the right to be tits. Much of the outrage about the beardy Islamic preachers is because they say horrible stuff. Some (not all) of them don't actually do very much other than talk bollix.

[XCP]

Cyrus1971 said:

Absolutely perfect example of what I am talking about. This man does not have to like Policemen, he does not have to be polite, correct, informed or hold the behavioural and cultural standards of anyone but himself. He can carry the most heinous hatred inside of himself and if he has the courage to do so wear what the hell what he likes exposing that to the world. This is a total destruction of his right to be a cock. Fighting the imposition of supposed "societal" norms on the anyone is something I will stand up for, regardless of the taste, judgement or wisdom of the muppet.

He pleaded guilty and would have been sent down anyway for other matters. Get over it for goodness sake.

[daz3210]

Breadvan72 said:

Some (not all) of them don't actually do very much other than talk bollix.

I bet that in itself is something they may not agree with and may take offence at you saying.

But then, it is your right to not agree with them, and they are perfectly entitled to hear your opinion.

[anonymous-user]

I don't mind Mr Knob being sentenced for other proper crimes, but the tee shirt bust is daft. If he was only back in court because of that, and so was found to have breached an earlier keep your nose clean order, that's harsh.

[Milky Joe]

Breadvan72 said:

I don't mind Mr Knob being sentenced for other proper crimes, but the tee shirt bust is daft. If he was only back in court because of that, and so was found to have breached an earlier keep your nose clean order, that's harsh.

The impact of him displaying those messages may be far more serious than the proper crimes you are happy to see him sentenced for.

[Sparta VAG]

I think that it's worth mentioning that the bloke locked up for the T-shirt had 77 previous convictions, this one being number 78.

Far beyond the point of getting £80 fines, community orders, or writing sorry letters.

[10 Pence Short]

Sparta VAG said:

I think that it's worth mentioning that the bloke locked up for the T-shirt had 77 previous convictions, this one being number 78.

Far beyond the point of getting £80 fines, community orders, or writing sorry letters.

I don't think the sensible discussion should be about the level of punishment. The sensible discussion should ask if wearing the T shirt he did should be considered a criminal act in the first place.

Personally I think it's bonkers to prosecute someone for displaying the opinion as he did. Society should be perfectly capable of making their own judgement on his opinions whilst respecting his right to hold and display them.

On that principle his previous offending is irrelevant.

Edited by 10 Pence Short on Friday 12th October 13:56

[mercfunder]

Milky Joe said:

Breadvan72 said:

I don't mind Mr Knob being sentenced for other proper crimes, but the tee shirt bust is daft. If he was only back in court because of that, and so was found to have breached an earlier keep your nose clean order, that's harsh.

The impact of him displaying those messages may be far more serious than the proper crimes you are happy to see him sentenced for.

Really? I like to believe the vast majority of the British public would see him and immediately label him a knob, best avoided.