Free Speech (in the UK) an Oxymoron?
Discussion
ewenm said:
John145 said:
And if there was no law broken than no one would pay a blind bit of notice. Problem solved.
What problem? If you advocate fee speech, why would what anyone says be a problem? Can't have it both ways.simoid said:
John145 said:
simoid said:
Anything?
Yes. As soon as you set limits, then you remove freedom.Would you say in a discussion about derestricting motorways that doing so would be to advocate killing polar bears?
Remember we are talking about words, whether written or spoken. You can't kill someone through communication. Sticks and stones and what not...
Edited by John145 on Tuesday 9th October 22:09
John145 said:
simoid said:
John145 said:
simoid said:
Anything?
Yes. As soon as you set limits, then you remove freedom.Would you say in a discussion about derestricting motorways that doing so would be to advocate killing polar bears?
John145 said:
Free speech causes problems, but the problems caused are minuscule compared to the travesty of losing it.
Maybe those that cause the problems should be held responsible for them. Personal responsibility, it seems an unpopular concept nowadays.If someone behaves like an idiot, they should expect to be treated like an idiot.
ewenm said:
John145 said:
Free speech causes problems, but the problems caused are minuscule compared to the travesty of losing it.
Maybe those that cause the problems should be held responsible for them. Personal responsibility, it seems an unpopular concept nowadays.If someone behaves like an idiot, they should expect to be treated like an idiot.
John145 said:
simoid said:
Do I have a right not to hear certain things?
Well you control where your eyes are pointing, what room you're in, who you associate with. Should the police be required to make sure you don't put yourself into situations that make you uncomfortable?John145 said:
ewenm said:
John145 said:
Free speech causes problems, but the problems caused are minuscule compared to the travesty of losing it.
Maybe those that cause the problems should be held responsible for them. Personal responsibility, it seems an unpopular concept nowadays.If someone behaves like an idiot, they should expect to be treated like an idiot.
simoid said:
John145 said:
simoid said:
Do I have a right not to hear certain things?
Well you control where your eyes are pointing, what room you're in, who you associate with. Should the police be required to make sure you don't put yourself into situations that make you uncomfortable?I have been on the bus with complete nutters who are spouting all sorts of random st, I'm quite happy to sit there and let them get on with it.
ewenm said:
And your opinion on my main point about being held responsible for the problems caused by your actions?
If you offend someone through words and they come round your house and shoot you in the face, this not a form of suicide. They are a murderer.Catch my drift?
Maybe the world is still too uneducated for freedom of speech.
mercfunder said:
"I do not agree with disapprove of what you have to say, but I 'll will defend to the death your right to say it."
Voltaire Evelyn Beatrice Hall - The Friends of Voltaire
Fixed that for you. The judge who jailed Matthew Woods seems to be a member of the Lamar Burgess fan club. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to have stayed to watch the ending.
John145 said:
simoid said:
John145 said:
simoid said:
Do I have a right not to hear certain things?
Well you control where your eyes are pointing, what room you're in, who you associate with. Should the police be required to make sure you don't put yourself into situations that make you uncomfortable?I have been on the bus with complete nutters who are spouting all sorts of random st, I'm quite happy to sit there and let them get on with it.
I'm at fault and should "man the fk up" and challenge them?
My Granny should also "man the fk up" and challenge them?
Not all speech is acceptable.
simoid said:
John145 said:
simoid said:
John145 said:
simoid said:
Do I have a right not to hear certain things?
Well you control where your eyes are pointing, what room you're in, who you associate with. Should the police be required to make sure you don't put yourself into situations that make you uncomfortable?I have been on the bus with complete nutters who are spouting all sorts of random st, I'm quite happy to sit there and let them get on with it.
I'm at fault and should "man the fk up" and challenge them?
My Granny should also "man the fk up" and challenge them?
Not all speech is acceptable.
Nevermind...
John145 said:
If you offend someone through words and they come round your house and shoot you in the face, this not a form of suicide. They are a murderer.
Catch my drift?
Maybe the world is still too uneducated for freedom of speech.
awooga awooga! Straw man alert! Awooga awooga!Catch my drift?
Maybe the world is still too uneducated for freedom of speech.
If you cause genuine serious distress to someone through your "free speech" should they have any way of holding you responsible for that distress you've caused or should they just MTFU? Note: "genuine" and "serious".
At what point does free speech become harassment? At what point does it become threatening? Or is it always enshrined regardless?
We boil down to a contest between the right to possibly offend versus the right to not be offended.
For me the former wins because if you favour the latter, anyone can claim offence, or worse, cite offence in some unproven third party and exert control. This is frequently used to maintain vested interest.
The draw back is you will hear things that you don't like. But at least you learn about who holds certain views. Which can be very worthwhile. Eg NF politicians appearing dumb on national TV.
For me the former wins because if you favour the latter, anyone can claim offence, or worse, cite offence in some unproven third party and exert control. This is frequently used to maintain vested interest.
The draw back is you will hear things that you don't like. But at least you learn about who holds certain views. Which can be very worthwhile. Eg NF politicians appearing dumb on national TV.
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