Stab a dog, criminal damage?

Stab a dog, criminal damage?

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Boosted LS1

21,167 posts

259 months

Friday 12th October 2012
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sugerbear said:
rpguk said:
Some interesting points here in that he may have been trying to fight off the dog. I could certainly see that if the dog was on the attack one could well be forgiven for running to get a knife - it's size alone would make it dangerous when angry even if it was generally placid.

However, the article does state that it happened after the dogs were separated. If this man did this out of anger or spite or any other reason then to stop an attack in progress then I revert to my original stance and he should face a custodial sentence.

ajstephe said:
rpguk said:
The bit that concerns me the most was that he was only charged with criminal damage.
He hasn't been charged yet. The investigation is still ongoing and he may be charged with other offences

Murder requires a human being to be killed. Animals are classed as property
Yeah, wasn't expecting him to be charged with murder - just seemed that the police were indicating that criminal damage was the most they could get him on when I would have thought there would be other legislation that could cover the incident.
Ok, let's say I am out walking my beloved Labrador in the park, big fierce dog comes over and starts attacking it, maybe takes a chunk out of it, does it some damage. Eventually the owner comes over and is struggling to control or get the animal off, maybe I also get bitten as well. I decide that enough is enough go to my car and get a hammer and kill the still snarling dog. Owner of the other dog now upset but places all the blame on me and runs to the press.

Would I deserve a custodial sentence ?

YouTube'd American bulldog and the first one I came cross is someone using one as as attack dog, so I would guess they attract a certain kind of dog owner.
Funny but when I used Utube I got this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L28TM48bF0

But I understand what you mean about the owners. American bull dogs are like great danes, big and stupid. As for some of the owners...

Brother D

3,698 posts

175 months

Friday 12th October 2012
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Boosted LS1 said:
It's an american bulldog and not a pit bull. That might be significant. As far as I'm aware american bulldogs aren't a fighting breed but they can look pretty frightening. The ones I've come across have been very well mannered. Maybe the attacker assumed it was a pit bull type, hence his reaction?

Somebody will correct me if I'm wrong about the dangerous dogs stuff.
I'm not sure how my statement to reserve judgement until the facts have been collated, can be construed as condoning stabbing a dog to death with 5 knives... but anyway:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dog_fighting_...


NoNeed

15,137 posts

199 months

Friday 12th October 2012
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simoid said:
How does one "wield 5 knives"? confused
I wondered this too.


That aside, dogs that could be dangerous should be muzzled. I assume that if the fight was reported the authorities would probably have had the dog destroyed anyway not that that makes stabbing it ok that's plainly the wrong thing to do.

NoNeed

15,137 posts

199 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
simoid said:
How does one "wield 5 knives"? confused
I wondered this too.


That aside, dogs that could be dangerous should be muzzled. I assume that if the fight was reported the authorities would probably have had the dog destroyed anyway not that that makes stabbing it ok that's plainly the wrong thing to do.

gruffalo

7,509 posts

225 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
NoNeed said:
simoid said:
How does one "wield 5 knives"? confused
I wondered this too.


That aside, dogs that could be dangerous should be muzzled. I assume that if the fight was reported the authorities would probably have had the dog destroyed anyway not that that makes stabbing it ok that's plainly the wrong thing to do.
Interesting how every comment on here about the dogs fighting is jumping to the conclusion that it must be the big dogs fault that there was a scrap between the dogs.

From what I have witnessed many times is it is the small dog that is completely untrained that causes the initial problem but the bigger dog always gets the blame. Many owners of small dogs do not seem to think it important to train their animal for some reason, think about it how often do you see a small dog pulling on the lead, not recognising the authority of the supposed pack leader who ofter looks like he/she has something on a stick that they are waving round down near the floor, or a small dog yapping away at some one walking past no one seem to mind small dogs showing aggressive tendencies like this, but if a big dog reacts to the threat then it is the big dogs fault.

Sad story this.

Boshly

2,776 posts

235 months

Friday 12th October 2012
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icetea said:
Depending on the circumstances... The guy deserves anything from a medal to a 2 year prison sentence.
I'm with Icetea here.

I must admit when taking my dog for a walk last year a dog came bounding over to us across the field ignoring his owners cries and screams to come back, when he got close he was the largest American Bulldog I had ever seen, he wasn't friendly though to be fair he also wasn't being aggressive, but when he circled me the thought went through my head never mind my dog, this dog could kill me! The owner, a slight lady, could have done nothing physically IMHO and had already shown her lack of control. I'm confident with dogs but that was a defining moment.

The story doesn't in any way justify any extreme actions but it does go to show that these dogs can be extremely frightening and I guess can make people act in strange ways (my immediate thought was to look for a weapon - fight or flight mode??). As such I reiterate, the exact circumstances will be telling either way.

Grenoble

50,289 posts

154 months

Friday 12th October 2012
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I'm curious (and may have misread) that the dog owner was also injured by a knife, whilst she held the dog. Would that not normally lead to assault/abh/gbh charges?

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 12th October 2012
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NoNeed said:
simoid said:
How does one "wield 5 knives"? confused
I wondered this too.

...
The Circus was in town! No, really, there was a Circus on Hampstead Heath last week.

I once told a local chav that if their dog intimidated my (then) five year old daughter again, I would kick its head off. Two PCSOs came to my door and tried to give me a bking. I gave them a law lecture instead, the poor luvvies.

paintman

7,669 posts

189 months

Friday 12th October 2012
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Criminal damage is the usual charge if a police dog is killed & the last time one of my old force's dogs was killed - knifed - that was the charge used (in addition to other charges from the same incident).
Can't think of any other charge that would be appropriate, causing unnecessary suffering etc could be defended in court by the defendant proving by use of expert witnesses that the injury inflicted would have meant the animal was killed instantly, ergo no suffering.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 12th October 2012
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Ki3r said:
My cat was stabbed and killed a few years ago, it was crimed as criminal damage too.
Were you not arrested for egregious noun-verb abuse?

Karyn

6,053 posts

167 months

Friday 12th October 2012
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gruffalo said:
Interesting how every comment on here about the dogs fighting is jumping to the conclusion that it must be the big dogs fault that there was a scrap between the dogs.

From what I have witnessed many times is it is the small dog that is completely untrained that causes the initial problem but the bigger dog always gets the blame. Many owners of small dogs do not seem to think it important to train their animal for some reason...but if a big dog reacts then it is the big dogs fault.

Sad story this.
This, all day long.

Hugo a Gogo

23,378 posts

232 months

Friday 12th October 2012
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the one fact in the whole story that rings alarm bells for me is that the dog was called "Tyson"

Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

185 months

Friday 12th October 2012
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This is true and also please note that an Americxan Bulldog is a very different-looking breed from an English Bulldog, most of which wouldn't say boo to a goose.



...though I'm making no claim to know about their temerament.

wildoliver

8,766 posts

215 months

Friday 12th October 2012
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To write the story a different way............

Today a man was commended for his bravery, when a powerful aggressive dog attacked him and his pet while out for a walk, the owner of the attacking dog 'Tyson' tried to seperate them and was cut in the attempt as her dog turned on her.

The man rushed to his house and grabbed the nearest thing he could find, a block of 5 knives in the kitchen, rushing back out he was forced to stab the dog 23 times before it stopped attacking, the attack was so fierce a knife was bent almost in half.


oyster

12,577 posts

247 months

Friday 12th October 2012
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Regiment said:
Jasandjules said:
Oh I didn't realise we were allowed to go and get large carving knives these days and just stab dogs. And people.
Not knowing the background or what's happened from both sides, it could be a distraught dog owner grabbing a weapon to protect a member of their family from a vicious dog attack. If one of my cats or dogs was set upon by a dog in a vicious attack, all bets are off I'm afraid and I'm going to either grab a weapon or kick as hard as I can to its most vulnerable parts, even if it means killing/maiming the dog.
According to article the dogs had already been separated, so it sounds like retribution to me.
And 23 stab wounds, again sounds like crazed vengeance not defence of a dog.

Andehh

7,107 posts

205 months

Friday 12th October 2012
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oyster said:
According to article the dogs had already been separated, so it sounds like retribution to me.
And 23 stab wounds, again sounds like crazed vengeance not defence of a dog.
On the contrary, 23 sounds like a panicked/ desperation attack. There is a whole different side to this story... no one names their cute & cuddly american bulldog 'Tyson'....

Karyn

6,053 posts

167 months

Friday 12th October 2012
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Obviously my dog is fair game for being stabbed 23 times then, given that he's named after an actual criminal. He's a staffy, as well! Goodness me... fair game indeed!

Right? That's how it works?

So I'll keep my eyes open for potential pyscho stabbers.


rolleyes

RB Will

9,662 posts

239 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
sugerbear said:
Ok, let's say I am out walking my beloved Labrador in the park, big fierce dog comes over and starts attacking it, maybe takes a chunk out of it, does it some damage. Eventually the owner comes over and is struggling to control or get the animal off, maybe I also get bitten as well. I decide that enough is enough go to my car and get a hammer and kill the still snarling dog. Owner of the other dog now upset but places all the blame on me and runs to the press.

Would I deserve a custodial sentence ?
If you managed to get yourself and your dog to your car then went back with a hammer to kill the other dog I would say yes you do. If you mean you could not separate the dogs who were still fighting so you went and got a hammer and came back to end things then no.

NoNeed said:
That aside, dogs that could be dangerous should be muzzled.
So that is every dog, cat, rat, sheep, cow, horse etc needing a muzzle.

Reading the story as written then I do think the man deserves a custodial for leaving the scene then coming back to attack.
I'm still trying to figure out how it started. Was one or both of the dogs being walked when it kicked off or neither on a walk and both just out roaming free around the houses, which really should not be allowed.

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
This had been a sensible thread, waiting for the facts to emerge.

Now it's descended into assumption and innuendo.

Some posters should be ashamed of themselves.

Probably ones called "Derek" and "Wayne" because nobody names their child Derek or Wayne if they're not going to make assumptions.

sugerbear

3,960 posts

157 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
RB Will said:
NoNeed said:
That aside, dogs that could be dangerous should be muzzled.
So that is every dog, cat, rat, sheep, cow, horse etc needing a muzzle.

Reading the story as written then I do think the man deserves a custodial for leaving the scene then coming back to attack.
I'm still trying to figure out how it started. Was one or both of the dogs being walked when it kicked off or neither on a walk and both just out roaming free around the houses, which really should not be allowed.
Is your attack cat/rat/sheep/cow/horse called Tyson perchance ? And can we have pictures please.

Your latter points are spot on, nobody knows the full story. The paper will probably run a story next week with the other side of the story, then we can judge.