Plebgate - An interesting new twist
Discussion
10 Pence Short said:
And I'd also love to know what this supposed 'lower evidential threshold' is? I'm sure the courts are complicit in this, in not allowing representation to argue the law in their favour, too. It's all the lizard men controlling our very lives.
I would be more inclined to view some officers as seeing themselves above the law and not being too happy when the theory is, from time to time, disproved.
Its simple. CPS charge officers in circumstances where a member of the public would not be. It has nothing to do with the courts, other than waste their time. I have been present in court to see this happen. Are you saying I am wrong?I would be more inclined to view some officers as seeing themselves above the law and not being too happy when the theory is, from time to time, disproved.
I did predict that if he went then he'd return and the police involved would get a poke in the eye a few months later.
As I said at the time, the Police officers applied their default 'attitude test' and was met with a superior one, it's about time this happened at a decent level of publicity and I'm relishing it.
It is comforting to think that occasionally the biter is bit.
As I said at the time, the Police officers applied their default 'attitude test' and was met with a superior one, it's about time this happened at a decent level of publicity and I'm relishing it.
It is comforting to think that occasionally the biter is bit.
Rovinghawk said:
Gene Vincent said:
It is comforting to think that occasionally the biter is bit.
I think of this as more of an 'own goal', tbh.RH
1/. First who has been arrested and who hasn't?
2/. Who is now under investigation by the Police and who isn't?
That doesn't constitute an own goal.
Mitchell does not deny swearing at Officers.
Mitchell does not deny abusing Officers.
The two Officers who made the report have not been arrested
Cameron's lacky, Met boss Hyphen-Howe states "I have seen nothing that causes me to doubt that original account made by Police on duty at the time"
(But the usual suspects can and will ignore all of the above)
Mitchell does not deny abusing Officers.
The two Officers who made the report have not been arrested
Cameron's lacky, Met boss Hyphen-Howe states "I have seen nothing that causes me to doubt that original account made by Police on duty at the time"
(But the usual suspects can and will ignore all of the above)
Elroy Blue said:
1/. Mitchell does not deny swearing at Officers.
2/. Mitchell does not deny abusing Officers.
The two Officers who made the report have not been arrested
1/. Not an offence warranting much more than a shrugged shoulder.2/. Mitchell does not deny abusing Officers.
The two Officers who made the report have not been arrested
2/. Same thing, shrugged shoulder stuff.
The person arrested has broken the law and passed on information that he shouldn't to a public voice, this is an offence.
So we have 'nothing much' as opposed to a serious breach of confidentiality, this will also run into the continual leaking of identities of people in other investigations.
It's a bad day that was as inevitable as some heres response to put a pretty spin on it as being all Mitchells evil upper-class toffiness on show.
Gene Vincent said:
Let's look at that assertion in the cold light of outcomes.
1/. First who has been arrested and who hasn't?
2/. Who is now under investigation by the Police and who isn't?
That doesn't constitute an own goal.
You misunderstand me- the alleged leaking of confidential information & subsequent arrest is the own goal.1/. First who has been arrested and who hasn't?
2/. Who is now under investigation by the Police and who isn't?
That doesn't constitute an own goal.
RH
Rovinghawk said:
Gene Vincent said:
Let's look at that assertion in the cold light of outcomes.
1/. First who has been arrested and who hasn't?
2/. Who is now under investigation by the Police and who isn't?
That doesn't constitute an own goal.
You misunderstand me- the alleged leaking of confidential information & subsequent arrest is the own goal.1/. First who has been arrested and who hasn't?
2/. Who is now under investigation by the Police and who isn't?
That doesn't constitute an own goal.
RH
Why are there these anti-police rants so often? I was 30 years in the service and I can say, until some idiot asks for chapter and verse, that the police force we have in this country is now much better as regards to work ethic, honesty and dependability than it was when I joined. I have friends in the USA, Italy and one at the moment in France and all suggest that the English/Welsh forces are better than theirs, and one of my American friends is 3 countries short of 100 she's been to and she reckons ours is the best in the world.
That doesn't make it perfect and the force is open to criticism. Indeed, I've criticised it often enough myself.
We have comments such as "I did predict . . .As I said at the time . . . the Police officers applied their default 'attitude test' and was [sic, and rather ironic given your 'I assure you my post was in English bit later] met with a superior one, it's about time this happened at a decent level of publicity and I'm relishing it.
“It is comforting to think that occasionally the biter is bit.”
One of the problem with the current policing system is chronic under-funding. See how much France and Germany pay for their police forces and you will see the proof. Another, and one more difficult to repair, is that the individual officers are now unable to do much outside the straight jacket of directions forced on them by those who have no idea what is going on.
I'm all for criticism of the police, I do it often enough myself. I accept that being 'the best in the world', not my words but those of an American friend who is just three short of 100 foreign countries visited, is no excuse for poor behaviour. I think our system of criminal courts is the best in the world if one ignores cost, but that doesn't make it perfect. So there will be poor performance, in both parts of the but going on and on about police attitudes has gone from irritating to pathetic.
What is the point of contributing to these forums when you could take comments from certain posters and drop them in any other they have contributed to. I suspect that is what they do.
I bet every officer, past and present, who has spent a fortnight on the streets, believes he has met RH, Vincent and the rest of the boys in the sulky group. And they have the cheek to have a go at police for their attitude. Jeez.
I do wonder how long some would last as custody officer on a Saturday late-turn in Brighton.
No, in point of fact I don't.
That doesn't make it perfect and the force is open to criticism. Indeed, I've criticised it often enough myself.
We have comments such as "I did predict . . .As I said at the time . . . the Police officers applied their default 'attitude test' and was [sic, and rather ironic given your 'I assure you my post was in English bit later] met with a superior one, it's about time this happened at a decent level of publicity and I'm relishing it.
“It is comforting to think that occasionally the biter is bit.”
One of the problem with the current policing system is chronic under-funding. See how much France and Germany pay for their police forces and you will see the proof. Another, and one more difficult to repair, is that the individual officers are now unable to do much outside the straight jacket of directions forced on them by those who have no idea what is going on.
I'm all for criticism of the police, I do it often enough myself. I accept that being 'the best in the world', not my words but those of an American friend who is just three short of 100 foreign countries visited, is no excuse for poor behaviour. I think our system of criminal courts is the best in the world if one ignores cost, but that doesn't make it perfect. So there will be poor performance, in both parts of the but going on and on about police attitudes has gone from irritating to pathetic.
What is the point of contributing to these forums when you could take comments from certain posters and drop them in any other they have contributed to. I suspect that is what they do.
I bet every officer, past and present, who has spent a fortnight on the streets, believes he has met RH, Vincent and the rest of the boys in the sulky group. And they have the cheek to have a go at police for their attitude. Jeez.
I do wonder how long some would last as custody officer on a Saturday late-turn in Brighton.
No, in point of fact I don't.
Elroy Blue said:
Mitchell does not deny swearing at Officers.
Mitchell does not deny abusing Officers.
The two Officers who made the report have not been arrested
Cameron's lacky, Met boss Hyphen-Howe states "I have seen nothing that causes me to doubt that original account made by Police on duty at the time"
(But the usual suspects can and will ignore all of the above)
He does deny using certain words. The evidence that he used those words appears to be the report, in the press, via an MP, of the incident by an officer who may well turn out to have embellished or invented or perhaps not to even have been there. At least, that's my reading of this to date?Mitchell does not deny abusing Officers.
The two Officers who made the report have not been arrested
Cameron's lacky, Met boss Hyphen-Howe states "I have seen nothing that causes me to doubt that original account made by Police on duty at the time"
(But the usual suspects can and will ignore all of the above)
IroningMan said:
He does deny using certain words. The evidence that he used those words appears to be the report, in the press, via an MP, of the incident by an officer who may well turn out to have embellished or invented or perhaps not to even have been there. At least, that's my reading of this to date?
The report submitted by the actual Officers abused by Mitchell is not being questioned by the investigation.What is being done, rather cleverly by the establishment, is to make the insinuation the whole thing is made up.
Derek Smith said:
one of my American friends is 3 countries short of 100 she's been to and she reckons ours is the best in the world.
She should visit Monaco- the nicest, politest, most helpful police I've ever encountered.Those in Romania are also incredibly helpful & use common sense when encountering minor stuff (made me tip my beer out as I was unknowingly in a non-drinking zone- no paperwork, no fuss, no problem).
Ours could learn from them.
RH
Derek Smith said:
“It is comforting to think that occasionally the biter is bit.”
One of the problem with the current policing system is chronic under-funding.
But running to the press is always going to be subject to the 'supplementary funding' accusation.One of the problem with the current policing system is chronic under-funding.
The British are designed to view policing as something that has broad shoulders, the general view is that the average Joe/Joanna is quintessentially a decent citizen and the broad shoulders are there to be relied upon to fend off minor indiscretions of the largely blameless and those same broad shoulders are there to bear down on the true wrong-doing, it means that pettiness is ignored, when our police appear petty-minded is when they lose support.
That is why the speed thing was hived off, it was a disaster.
But now we have the spectacle of cops rifling through their notes and those notes hitting the headlines... it's as big a disaster as the whole speeding fiasco once was.
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