A thorny issue - illegal off-roading - any advice?

[larrylamb11]

Can onyone offer any advice on a growing problem I am facing in my neck of the woods?
I live in the rural south of England, a green and pleasant, peaceful land... I live in the sticks surrounded by common and farm land but not too many miles from reasonably urban settlements and conurbations, very much like the rest of the South. There have always been sporadic issues with dirt bikes illicitly using the countryside for off-road fun, but in recent years the incidence of dirt biking has increased exponentially and with it has come a far greater problem with 4x4s.....

I appreciate that this is a contentious issue and I am not looking for a pitchfork sharpener or flaming torch seller to equipe a posse, but for some advice (both legal and practical) as to how one might be able to go about addressing this issue.....
Where it once used to be a problem confined to the odd weekend, we are now at the point where illegal off-roading is occuring literally 7 days a week, 24 hours a day - and no this is not an exageration, we actually have 4x4 vehicles offroading across common land into the small hours of the night! Equally, where it was once confined to the odd particularly challenging 'mud-hole' or byway, it is now literally anywhere a vehicle can be pushed or winched through - bridleways, footpaths, woodland, marshland etc. is all fair game it seems. Whilst there are a very small number of byways (which are not restricted) these have been used to the point where they are so damaged as to be impassable in anything other than a serious 4x4.

Please don't assume I am some sort of do-gooding tree hugger intent on banning all off-road fun - I am absolutely not. I can totally see the fun in the challenge of off-roading, have travelled the same byways in my own 4x4 myself (in the summer) and 'played' at 'pay & play' sites with dedicated off-roaders. However, right now I am looking at an area of the countryside that has been so damaged that it cannot possibly recover via natural means. I am faced with continual illegal off-roading in an epidemic growing month on month - the more damage done, the more challenging the conditions and thus the more it attracts and is used by illegal off roaders.... and so it goes on. As you can imagine, reasoned discussion with individuals engaged in such activities yields no results - unless you were trying to fill a swear box.

Obviously, Police and PCSO are being regularly informed and evidence is being gathered by concerned local residents where possible (Police always want photo evidence - not easy at night!) but for every vehicle S34'd there are five to take their place... plus the off roaders (paricularly dirt bikes) have simply begun to obscure (tape over) or remove number plates... and of course there are plenty of vehicles that are totally non-road-legal anyway (monkey bikes etc.).

So, how does one go about encouraging or educating off-roaders to limit or desist in this activity? Whar are the actual legal rules on using byways and the damage that such use creates? Who does one contact about getting TRO's applied to byways? Has anyone got any practical suggestions as to how one could try to restore the balance of the countryside or encourage these off-roaders to stop?

[Dave^]

The fewer areas available, the more use they will see...

[crusty]

There used to be lots of areas for people to go, but overtime they have nearly all been banned by people like you.

Now you are seeing the rsults

[Rawwr]

crusty said:

There used to be lots of areas for people to go, but overtime they have nearly all been banned by people like you.

An aggressive stance? I thought the OP made a calm and valid case, so drop the 'people like you' guff.

[wheedler]

It's all a bit fun just not when it affects me.

Bet you two are one of those people that moves near a race track and then moan about the noise ffs and then try to close it down . I off road early in the morning because there's nowhere left to do it legally, seems anywhere I go there's someone to moan about the noise. I don't have a stupid exhaust

[10 Pence Short]

Isn't this what s59 was invented for?

[TheHeretic]

wheedler said:

It's all a bit fun just not when it affects me.

Bet you two are one of those people that moves near a race track and then moan about the noise ffs and then try to close it down . I off road early in the morning because there's nowhere left to do it legally, seems anywhere I go there's someone to moan about the noise. I don't have a stupid exhaust

I have never offloaded illegally, but you can see how it is being squeezed, and squeezed to the point of it being banned for good on roads that should be there for their use. There will always be illegal offroaders, and these need to be stamped out, but just making offroading illegal seems to be the only route the authorities seem willing to take. We had the same issue in NY stats. Lots of land, but nowhere to go. The forests there have things called firebreaks. The offroading community asked that these be opened up for use by offroaders. It would keep access open to the firebreaks, and so on. This was denied, purely because offroaders are viewed as 'hooligans'.

There is plenty of countryside available if they allowed it. The irony is that they want to keep the countryside natural. Fly over it... Have a look how much if it is 'natural'.

[300bhp/ton]

larrylamb11 said:

However, right now I am looking at an area of the countryside that has been so damaged that it cannot possibly recover via natural means.

Sorry but bullst statements like this really do not help your cause.

I'm also pretty sure you are hugely exaggerating the fact that it's a 24/7 issue.


Can I ask where abouts are you, as I know of no areas being used quite as you describe. In fact most/many greenlanes are now gated or shut. Bikes get through and they are an issue, although in many cases it's the type of person using them that is more the issue than the bikes themselves.

But 4x4's?

I'm not saying I wouldn't sympathize or even have some helpful comments, but you do sound over dramatic mixed with blatant lies. So are you able to offer up some more factual info.

Such as location, pictures, are the areas actually prohibited or restricted - I say this as I have first hand witnessed a fkwit claiming Land Rover's aren't allowed on the land they were driving on. They might have had a case if they weren't talking to the land owner at the time.

[Robb F]

larrylamb11 said:

I am looking at an area of the countryside that has been so damaged that it cannot possibly recover via natural means.

What could you possibly do to a section of the countryside that means it cannot possibly recover via natural means?

Do you mean its muddy?

[TheHeretic]

Unnatural mud.

[crusty]

Rawwr said:

An aggressive stance? I thought the OP made a calm and valid case, so drop the 'people like you' guff.

It is people like the OP though.

Everyone says, don't ride/drive here. But no-one comes up with an alternative , just the standard 'not in my backyard'

As for aggressive stances, I gues you haven't had the delight of meeting various ramblers, dog walkers etc, who go mental at you for riding your bike perfectly legally.

I have tried in the past to make peace with these people, and have now given up

[300bhp/ton]

crusty said:

There used to be lots of areas for people to go, but overtime they have nearly all been banned by people like you.

Now you are seeing the rsults

Actually there is some common sense here.

Lets say there used to be 10 different places you could go with 100 different people.

That's 10 people per location, or maybe none at some places.

Now whittle that down to only 2 locations because the other 8 are now heavily enforced. Lets assume that 20 people dropped out too. But that'd still make 40 people per location rather than 10. So 'locally' in these area's it would appear to be worse, although the larger picture is it has declined by 1/5th of people and and 4/5ths in locations.

[Mr2Mike]

crusty said:

It is people like the OP though.

Everyone says, don't ride/drive here. But no-one comes up with an alternative , just the standard 'not in my backyard'

How about the alternative of "Don't ride/drive on land where is it illegal"? Why do you appear to believe that you are entitled to do this?

This is as bad as the street racing thread with the street racing mongs whinging and whining that they didn't have anywhere else to go. Tough st, you aren't automatically entitled to do whatever the hell you want.

[crusty]

Mr2Mike said:

How about the alternative of "Don't ride/drive on land where is it illegal"?

If you then systematically make everywhere illegal?

[TheHeretic]

Mr2Mike said:

How about the alternative of "Don't ride/drive on land where is it illegal"? Why do you appear to believe that you are entitled to do this?

This is as bad as the street racing thread with the street racing mongs whinging and whining that they didn't have anywhere else to go. Tough st, you aren't automatically entitled to do whatever the hell you want.

I bet you have gone on a boon, however.

[Mr2Mike]

TheHeretic said:

I bet you have gone on a boon, however.

I'm not sure, because I have no idea what a boon is?

I have been greenlaning down public "roads" though, and it was a lot of fun.

EDIT: Just checked Urban Dictionary and it says:

noun
1. An uneducated, lower class negro; worthless <BR><BR>
2. Often used as a derogatory term towards anyone who presents one or more qualities of an uneducated and/or lower class negro.

I can quite confidently state I have NEVER gone on a boon.

crusty said:

If you then systematically make everywhere illegal?

I may be able to provide an answer if you actually completed your question.

Edited by Mr2Mike on Friday 15th February 13:05

[TheHeretic]

A hoon. Ipad doesn't like hoon, apparently. The vast majority of offroaders do it slowly, legally, and considerately. There will always be a minority, (the street racers of the offroad world), who ruin it for the rest.

[Mr2Mike]

TheHeretic said:

A hoon. Ipad doesn't like hoon, apparently. The vast majority of offroaders do it slowly, legally, and considerately. There will always be a minority, (the street racers of the offroad world), who ruin it for the rest.

I've never been on a hoon, as in an organised high speed run with a group of cars. I have driven/riden fairly quickly on the road though, in appropriate areas.

[TheHeretic]

Mr2Mike said:

I've never been on a hoon, as in an organised high speed run with a group of cars. I have driven/riden fairly quickly on the road though, in appropriate areas.

I think a hoon is merely to go on a 'spirited' drive. Doesn't have to be organised.

[crusty]

Mr2Mike said:

I may be able to provide an answer if you actually completed your question.

OK let me spell it out, for the more 'special' people amongst us

the OP said

"but in recent years the incidence of dirt biking has increased exponentially"

I said

"There used to be lots of areas for people to go, but overtime they have nearly all been banned "

We than had

"It's illegal to ride a motorbike in the forest by my house.

It's not my job to come up with an alternative"

PLus

"How about the alternative of "Don't ride/drive on land where is it illegal"

and I replied with

"If you then systematically make everywhere illegal?"

So to conclude, if people continue to reduce the number of places for people to go, and try and outlaw off-roading, you will see an increase in illegal off-roading. Plus the attitude of "it's not my problem to find a suitable alternative" will/has made the situation worse