A thorny issue - illegal off-roading - any advice?
Discussion
UPDATE:
Its been over 2 years since I started this thread but I felt it worth returning to offer an update - the punchline being that Traffic Regulation Orders have been applied to the byways worst affected, preventing 4x4 use.
It sounds simple, but it was really quite a lot of work and didn't come before a significant amount of further damage was done to the ancient woodland which resulted in a tangible public safety issue. Finally we managed to arrange a meeting with the local Council, the land owner, Parish Council reps., the local Wildlife Trust and the Police (to include a site visit) which graphically illustrated the scale of the problem and that there was now a clear need to take action..... That action plan slowly ground forward and included installing physical barriers to prevent 4x4 access (put in by the Wildlife Trust), fencing to limit the risk to public safety and the application of the Traffic Regulation Orders to forbid 4x4s from using the byways.
The TRO's have been in force for nearly a year now.
So how is it working? Well.... 4x4 use has certainly diminished. There are still a hardcore of lawless individuals illegally using the byways, ploughing over the physical barriers or simply ploughing through the woodland, over footpaths or similar to gain access. There is little legislation or preventative measures one can implement to stop those who have no regard for the law, but the Police are being receptive to specific reports of vehicles / individuals. Everyone in the area is primed to note vehicle registrations for any vehicles seen breaching the TROs and report it, so there is local communal action too.
Sadly the ancient woodland has not fared well and the worst affected areas around the byways remain a terrible mess, decades of habitat, leaf litter and soil destroyed and washed away to reveal the bare clay below. I am sure new life will spring forth in time and given enough decades it will begin to obscure the scars left behind. Hopefully the Wildlife Trust and local Council will restore the byways so they can be used by all again in due course and massage the worst of the damage back into the landscape with some deft excavator work at the same time.
So there you have it... we have achieved something at least
and hopefully there may be some useful pointers in this thread to help anybody else suffering a similar plague in their area - keep plugging away and you can get worthwhile results
Its been over 2 years since I started this thread but I felt it worth returning to offer an update - the punchline being that Traffic Regulation Orders have been applied to the byways worst affected, preventing 4x4 use.
It sounds simple, but it was really quite a lot of work and didn't come before a significant amount of further damage was done to the ancient woodland which resulted in a tangible public safety issue. Finally we managed to arrange a meeting with the local Council, the land owner, Parish Council reps., the local Wildlife Trust and the Police (to include a site visit) which graphically illustrated the scale of the problem and that there was now a clear need to take action..... That action plan slowly ground forward and included installing physical barriers to prevent 4x4 access (put in by the Wildlife Trust), fencing to limit the risk to public safety and the application of the Traffic Regulation Orders to forbid 4x4s from using the byways.
The TRO's have been in force for nearly a year now.
So how is it working? Well.... 4x4 use has certainly diminished. There are still a hardcore of lawless individuals illegally using the byways, ploughing over the physical barriers or simply ploughing through the woodland, over footpaths or similar to gain access. There is little legislation or preventative measures one can implement to stop those who have no regard for the law, but the Police are being receptive to specific reports of vehicles / individuals. Everyone in the area is primed to note vehicle registrations for any vehicles seen breaching the TROs and report it, so there is local communal action too.
Sadly the ancient woodland has not fared well and the worst affected areas around the byways remain a terrible mess, decades of habitat, leaf litter and soil destroyed and washed away to reveal the bare clay below. I am sure new life will spring forth in time and given enough decades it will begin to obscure the scars left behind. Hopefully the Wildlife Trust and local Council will restore the byways so they can be used by all again in due course and massage the worst of the damage back into the landscape with some deft excavator work at the same time.
So there you have it... we have achieved something at least
and hopefully there may be some useful pointers in this thread to help anybody else suffering a similar plague in their area - keep plugging away and you can get worthwhile results GreatGranny said:
Well done to you and your fellow activists.
When an ancient protected woodland is being damaged as a result of a "leisure" activity action needs to be taken.
Just a pity there are still a small number of lawless idiots.
i agree, and i say this as someone who enjoys greenlaning.When an ancient protected woodland is being damaged as a result of a "leisure" activity action needs to be taken.
Just a pity there are still a small number of lawless idiots.
it's sad to see another TRO go into place and another lane closed from our use, we have to fight to keep many of the lanes we use open anyway. problem is it's even sadder to see the damage done to the countryside by weapons grade bellends who seem to think greenlanes are the same as pay and play sites so they rip up the area.
i'm glad you have a had a result OP, and it's a completely different situation to moving next door to a race track, although i do feel that is a special type of stupid to do that.
my only problem is that the TRO would completely stop me or my mates from travelling the routes, as you have found the illegal users tend not to care.
perhaps in the future it might get opened back up to legal use, i can only hope.
larrylamb11 said:
UPDATE:
Its been over 2 years since I started this thread but I felt it worth returning to offer an update - the punchline being that Traffic Regulation Orders have been applied to the byways worst affected, preventing 4x4 use...
Your original post said that the problem was illegal use.Its been over 2 years since I started this thread but I felt it worth returning to offer an update - the punchline being that Traffic Regulation Orders have been applied to the byways worst affected, preventing 4x4 use...
If "Traffic Regulation Orders have been applied to the byways worst affected, preventing 4x4 use" you have now stopped legal use.
Could we just clarify whether or not the term "NIMBY" can be legitimately applied?
hora said:
Ploughing through/over obstacles- round where I visit they ram new gates to gain access to areas that are off limits. In some areas of the Peak District these gates are not locked- it seems they are too idle(?) to get out.
Possibly the same bunch of knobheads who used to smash or pull down the large gates where I used to work (Peak District side of Sheffield, out in the sticks).Our site was a very old paper mill which also owned a lot of the well cared for woodland around it. It wasn't unknown for the lovely 4x4 drivers to find themselves in our woods (illegally) but unable, or unwilling, to go back the way they came so instead they would just demolish our gates and drive through our site back to the road.
w
kers.P.S. Glad you got it sorted, OP. I say that as a former (legal) off-road biker.
gareth_r said:
our original post said that the problem was illegal use.
If "Traffic Regulation Orders have been applied to the byways worst affected, preventing 4x4 use" you have now stopped legal use.
Could we just clarify whether or not the term "NIMBY" can be legitimately applied?
I could well be wrong, but the way I understood it was that the off-roaders were using the legal access to get to the illegal bit and so the solution was a TRO to try to prevent them getting there in the first place.If "Traffic Regulation Orders have been applied to the byways worst affected, preventing 4x4 use" you have now stopped legal use.
Could we just clarify whether or not the term "NIMBY" can be legitimately applied?
As you said though, perhaps counter-productive as the lawless ones won't care about the TRO anyway. Sad state of affairs...
Edited by PorkInsider on Monday 27th April 13:49
gareth_r said:
our original post said that the problem was illegal use.
If "Traffic Regulation Orders have been applied to the byways worst affected, preventing 4x4 use" you have now stopped legal use.
Could we just clarify whether or not the term "NIMBY" can be legitimately applied?
Exactly, given TRO's have been applied to these byways then they were originally legal rights of way and therefore not the illegal 'off roading' claimed in the first post.If "Traffic Regulation Orders have been applied to the byways worst affected, preventing 4x4 use" you have now stopped legal use.
Could we just clarify whether or not the term "NIMBY" can be legitimately applied?
This is clearly just another example of drivers being squeeze off green lane rights of way with dishonest claims.
This is why we need to financially support the LARA campaign of legal challenges by the Green Lane Association and Trail Riders federation
Edited by Martin4x4 on Monday 27th April 13:59
gareth_r said:
Could we just clarify whether or not the term "NIMBY" can be legitimately applied?
Stopping legitimate developments that you also benefit from/need or provide a greater benefit to society such as a power stations, refuse sites or housing, simply because you don't think they should be near to your house makes you a NIMBY. Objecting to numpties destroying local beauty spots with off roaders doesn't make you a Nimby.HTH
Martin4x4 said:
gareth_r said:
our original post said that the problem was illegal use.
If "Traffic Regulation Orders have been applied to the byways worst affected, preventing 4x4 use" you have now stopped legal use.
Could we just clarify whether or not the term "NIMBY" can be legitimately applied?
Exactly, given TRO's have been applied to these byways then they were originally legal rights of way and therefore not the illegal 'off roading' claimed in the first post.If "Traffic Regulation Orders have been applied to the byways worst affected, preventing 4x4 use" you have now stopped legal use.
Could we just clarify whether or not the term "NIMBY" can be legitimately applied?
This is clearly just another example of drivers being squeeze off green lane rights of way with dishonest claims.
They have done the only thing they can to give the police ammo to stop the illegal 4x4ers driving along what was legal access to the illegal sites.
The only people to blame here are the muppets driving illegally. Theres always some numpty spoiling it for the rest of us and in this case they forced the hands of the authorities.
SO stop trying to blame the OP and start looking amoungst your own 4x4ers!
Its the same as the twonks who spoilt the car scene in Essex, people pointed the fingers at the police for being heavy handed but it was the idiots crashing and being antisocial that forced them to end something that had been happening for decades.
I went back to the original post and the fact they were using Legal roads was not mentioned. Putting a gate up on a Private road with no Access makes sense. Doing it to a legal road and closing it invites trouble and does not make you look good at all! Personally one of my bug bears on Many who try to close Legal unmade roads is the claim that the 4x4's etc tear them up. In many cases when examined it turns out Farm vehicles are the culprit. Most Tractors can turn a perfectly good dirt road into a mess very quickly.
spats said:
...They have done the only thing they can to give the police ammo to stop the illegal 4x4ers driving along what was legal access to the illegal sites.
The only people to blame here are the muppets driving illegally. There's always some numpty spoiling it for the rest of us and in this case they forced the hands of the authorities.
SO stop trying to blame the OP and start looking amoungst your own 4x4ers!
Its the same as the twonks who spoilt the car scene in Essex, people pointed the fingers at the police for being heavy handed but it was the idiots crashing and being antisocial that forced them to end something that had been happening for decades.
I have a brilliant idea! There is finally a solution to speeding on motorways. All we have to do is close all the other roads in the country.The only people to blame here are the muppets driving illegally. There's always some numpty spoiling it for the rest of us and in this case they forced the hands of the authorities.
SO stop trying to blame the OP and start looking amoungst your own 4x4ers!
Its the same as the twonks who spoilt the car scene in Essex, people pointed the fingers at the police for being heavy handed but it was the idiots crashing and being antisocial that forced them to end something that had been happening for decades.
Not only that... no more burglaries, just put everyone under house arrest.
This could solve everything. I'm voting for whichever party proposes that we stop criminals breaking the law by punishing everyone who doesn't break the law.
- sigh*... it looks like we have to go over some old ground again...
Problem 1) An area of Ancient Woodland in an AONB has been treated as a 'pay & play' site. Driving ANYWHERE other than on a byway in this Ancient Woodland is ILLEGAL. Period.
Problem 2) The hard of thinking have been mainly using byways to access the Ancient Woodland, damaging the surface of the byway in the process of yobbish off-roading and in the pursuit of access, an action that is in contravention of the Highways Act 1980, section 131, for one...... The byways became so damaged that they were impassable to pretty much anything other than a 4x4.
Solution. Close byways to prevent hard of thinking from accessing Ancient Woodland and further destroying byway surface. TRO affords Police greater powers to take action against anyone contravening TRO.
In between the arguing on this thread there have been some useful suggestions on how to approach dealing with the problems as noted. They have helped get to where we are today. As the OP, I had a good barrage of NIMBY, accusatory and inflammatory replies and comments in the earlier parts of this post, all opinions to which the originators are entitled. All I care about is that 4x4s are no longer illegally driving over and damaging an area of Ancient Woodland in an AONB to the same degree as they were before and I can reasonably hold my head up and say that I didn't stand by when I saw it happening, but stood up to the plate and did something about it. TROs are not applied willy-nilly and it took a good deal of effort on behalf of all those who cared about this area, together with further damage to the Woodland and multi-organisation meetings for it to be agreed that it was a necessary part of the action plan to apply TROs. It is a sad but unavoidable fact that a few mindless individuals DO ruin it for everyone else..... Its worth considering which camp one wants to be in the next time one sets off green laning.
wheedler said:
I off road early in the morning because there's nowhere left to do it legally.......
Really? There is a 4x4 course down the end of my lane - a converted sandstone quarry. Googling - it looks like there are plenty of others around too.There are plenty of unrestricted byways "open to all traffic" dotted around the country as well.
Plenty of information to be found if you look:
http://www.treadlightly-uk.org/index.php?option=co...
Retroman said:
Just to clarify, is the byway access closed to all vehicles or just 4x4 vehicles?
I only ask as the term "4x4" is very vague.
There are a number of byways affected and the restrictions vary from all traffic to all motorised vehicles except those with less than 3 wheels!I only ask as the term "4x4" is very vague.
Irrespective, anyone damaging the surface of these byways by driving on them falls foul of the Highways Act 1980 section 131 and likely the Police Reform Act 2002 Section 59 (as is the case with all byways).
Great result OP.
As with most enjoyments in life there are those that think that because there is no law to stop them then they can do 'their thing' where ever and when ever they want without regard.
Most people are sensible .....
..... it's not often you get kite flyers performing stunts over M-ways - just because they can!
..... luckily most of us aren't disturbed at night by someone randomly wheel spinning up the road at 3 in the morning - just because they can!
..... and I can't remember the last time I saw a free-runner vaulting across the aisles at Tescos!
Similarly people shouldn't think they can use 4x4s to rip up by-ways and ancient woodland - just because they can!
As with most enjoyments in life there are those that think that because there is no law to stop them then they can do 'their thing' where ever and when ever they want without regard.
Most people are sensible .....
..... it's not often you get kite flyers performing stunts over M-ways - just because they can!
..... luckily most of us aren't disturbed at night by someone randomly wheel spinning up the road at 3 in the morning - just because they can!
..... and I can't remember the last time I saw a free-runner vaulting across the aisles at Tescos!
Similarly people shouldn't think they can use 4x4s to rip up by-ways and ancient woodland - just because they can!
gareth_r said:
our original post said that the problem was illegal use.
If "Traffic Regulation Orders have been applied to the byways worst affected, preventing 4x4 use" you have now stopped legal use.
Could we just clarify whether or not the term "NIMBY" can be legitimately applied?
I guess you can use that term. Can I use the term "wIf "Traffic Regulation Orders have been applied to the byways worst affected, preventing 4x4 use" you have now stopped legal use.
Could we just clarify whether or not the term "NIMBY" can be legitimately applied?
ker" on yours?
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