A thorny issue - illegal off-roading - any advice?
Discussion
Mr2Mike said:
car crazy said:
So you like off roading but not near you, could you not understand why my brain is shouting
NIMBY
No I can't, because I have said no such thing. There are green lanes near me and I have used them. If I moved to a house next to a legal green lane and didn't like the noise, I would have to suck it up. If people started illegally using woodland next to my house at unsocial hours I would be rightly pissed off and want to do something about it. NIMBY
I see an OP asking for advice, then 90% of respondents calling him a NIMBY for complaining, and more or less blaming him personally for restricting the areas available for off-roading to the extent that people can only be expected to do what he talked about.
If that's what constitutes a discussion on PH, maybe I'm on the wrong forum.
Oh wait, this thread's in SP&L - that explains it.
If that's what constitutes a discussion on PH, maybe I'm on the wrong forum.
Oh wait, this thread's in SP&L - that explains it.
Johnnytheboy said:
I see an OP asking for advice, then 90% of respondents calling him a NIMBY for complaining, and more or less blaming him personally for restricting the areas available for off-roading to the extent that people can only be expected to do what he talked about.
If that's what constitutes a discussion on PH, maybe I'm on the wrong forum.
Oh wait, this thread's in SP&L - that explains it.
You exaggerate. The word NIMBY has been used once by a poster towards the OP, the rest of the ice it has been either quoted. I think you are getting upset for no reason.If that's what constitutes a discussion on PH, maybe I'm on the wrong forum.
Oh wait, this thread's in SP&L - that explains it.
I can appreciate the OPs point. I live in the Rossendale Valley in Lancashire which for many years has been popular with off-road bikers - I know as I and a lot of my mates are said off-road bikers.
It's not been 100% legal but I've never had any bother either from walkers or countryside rangers.
However what has really really ruined it has been the explosion in 4x4 "One life, live it!" popularity; I see loads of chopped LRs, Discos, RRs, Suzukis etc driving up every weekend morning and down again, covered in s
t in the evenings. The ruts and general knackeredness that has been done to places that I have been able to ride on for years without problem is unbelievable.
The trouble is that there are simply too many of them and as is usual in these situations, they're ruining it for everyone else. And the root cause of all this concentration of 4x4s in one place is the actions and campaigning of the RA to close almost all routes to wheeled traffic. And of course this results in what's left getting ruined and so we'll get banned from that as well. Marvelous
It's not been 100% legal but I've never had any bother either from walkers or countryside rangers.
However what has really really ruined it has been the explosion in 4x4 "One life, live it!" popularity; I see loads of chopped LRs, Discos, RRs, Suzukis etc driving up every weekend morning and down again, covered in s
t in the evenings. The ruts and general knackeredness that has been done to places that I have been able to ride on for years without problem is unbelievable.The trouble is that there are simply too many of them and as is usual in these situations, they're ruining it for everyone else. And the root cause of all this concentration of 4x4s in one place is the actions and campaigning of the RA to close almost all routes to wheeled traffic. And of course this results in what's left getting ruined and so we'll get banned from that as well. Marvelous
It's tricky. As Trials Bikers we run bikes that are pretty silent and to be honest Muddy ground isn't what we are looking at. However as "bikers" we tend to get tarred with the same brush as MX, Quad and Pit bike riders. The last two tend to be worst as they buy a bike with no thought as to where to ride them. Then there are the 4X4's who get a cheap landy or Toyota and try to do the a "Dakar" with no skill. I can have sympathy but I would look at where they are coming from.
For Example "Flappits" in Bradford was a local spot where these guys went and played around at the weekend. It also kept them off the land the Motorsport clubs used. The Landowner was OK with it and even the Police were in support. However the Bradford Council decided it didn't want them there and thanks to the efforts of a couple of idiots they managed to shut it. The Result is increased levels of illegal off road riding and 4x4 drivers. Bradford Council seem to think they would all go away when "Flappits" closed. We now have to fight to keep the land that Motorsports have used for years due to these people thinking it's OK to use it.
For Example "Flappits" in Bradford was a local spot where these guys went and played around at the weekend. It also kept them off the land the Motorsport clubs used. The Landowner was OK with it and even the Police were in support. However the Bradford Council decided it didn't want them there and thanks to the efforts of a couple of idiots they managed to shut it. The Result is increased levels of illegal off road riding and 4x4 drivers. Bradford Council seem to think they would all go away when "Flappits" closed. We now have to fight to keep the land that Motorsports have used for years due to these people thinking it's OK to use it.
Mr2Mike said:
I'm not being picky at all. If someone exceed the speed limit on e.g. a Motorway or DCW, do you believe that has the same impact on peoples quality of life as illegally driving a 4x4 or dirt bike through land next to their house at unsocial hours?
Honestly yes.Because I doubt very much that anybodies quality of life is truly being effected by 4x4's.
Driving at high speed on a motorway will make noise too.
Johnnytheboy said:
Yet another thread in which PH gang up and tell the OP he is wrong.
That is also very boring.
But is it without reasons?That is also very boring.
Lets face what little evidence we have.
- the op has made some outrageous claims on the level of damage being caused. So much so they are hugely unlikely to be true.
- they have proclaimed what is or isn't legal, yet so far have not actually managed to back up any such claims.
It might be they are correct, but in many cases it is often grumpy locals thinking they are more important than others, even if nothing illegal is occurring. If it is illegal, then actual evidence and proof will be required, above and beyond a PH forum discussion.
Dog Star said:
However what has really really ruined it has been the explosion in 4x4 "One life, live it!" popularity; I see loads of chopped LRs, Discos, RRs, Suzukis etc driving up every weekend morning and down again, covered in st in the evenings. The ruts and general knackeredness that has been done to places that I have been able to ride on for years without problem is unbelievable.
It doesn't take much to 'muddy' a vehicle, particularly if their tyres poke out even a touch from the bodywork, as mine does, (but not outside the fender). I was out on a little jolly just the other day, no ripping up of the countryside, etc, but you will get blobs of mud popping up off the tyre. Stay out for a few hours and it can look like you've been 'hooliga-laning', even when you haven't. Don't assume muddy = hooligan. t in the evenings. The ruts and general knackeredness that has been done to places that I have been able to ride on for years without problem is unbelievable.y2blade said:
Larry it might help the townies understand if you post up some pictures of the damage done by 4x4s.
Really needs to be damage being done. As said earlier, a lot of so called damage is often/usually caused by horses and farm equipment, not light 4x4's. So even if there is damage that is not proof on what caused it.300bhp/ton said:
Driving at high speed on a motorway will make noise too.
If you live by a motorway and are used to traffic hammering past at 70mph, I rather doubt that there would be any discernible difference if there was also a proportion of the traffic coming past at 80 or 90 mph. I'm not saying that there's no measurable difference, if someone stood there with a noise meter - just that the impact is very considerably less noticeable to someone used to the "normal" motorway noise than the noise of off road bikers to someone who is used to there being no such late night use.
hman said:
normally the complaint is the audible noise of bikes etc late at night, not speed or risk of injury.
The nimbies are tucked up in bed reading 50 shades of st flicking their bean when a motorcyle/4x4 exhaust interrupts their stroke and frantic stroking of the fuzz is then made.
EFA.The nimbies are tucked up in bed reading 50 shades of s
t flicking their bean when a motorcyle/4x4 exhaust interrupts their stroke and frantic stroking of the fuzz is then made.Lurking Lawyer said:
300bhp/ton said:
Driving at high speed on a motorway will make noise too.
If you live by a motorway and are used to traffic hammering past at 70mph, I rather doubt that there would be any discernible difference if there was also a proportion of the traffic coming past at 80 or 90 mph. I'm not saying that there's no measurable difference, if someone stood there with a noise meter - just that the impact is very considerably less noticeable to someone used to the "normal" motorway noise than the noise of off road bikers to someone who is used to there being no such late night use.
Years back we opened a field up to car boot sales once a month. It's on the edge of the village. The "posh" part of the village complained on mass (including super-gluing padlocks shut on the field gates).
The council sent a person down to monitor the complained about noise levels from the car boot (using some sort of equipment as well as by ear).
1st visit they could detect no noticeable noise from the car boot.
2nd visit all they could detect was noise from the village football match that was approx 15 times further away, still no noise from the car boot.
Snobby residence however dismissed this and still moaned about the noise levels..
Want to see what we're up against when minding our own business on LEGAL lanes watch and learn..
Lieing nimbies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...
RIP Svengalie
TheHeretic said:
Johnnytheboy said:
You call this a discussion?
Yes. Where is it not. There are statements, questions, rebuttals, and so on. A discussion. The OP stated the situation and other people insulted him and said he was lying/exagerating.
I'm not sure how that constitutes a discussion.
Given he is the only one who has seen and experienced the situation i'm not sure how anyone else on here feels they are even remotely qualified to argue the facts.
However as is always the way, because some people like to go 'off road' themselves they automatically assume that the OP must be wrong/a nimby etc etc.
It's no different to speeding threads where some people will defend a car caught speeding no matter what the situation. 165 mph past a school? Not dangerous at all, clearly just revenue raising!
FWIW, many people enjoy the countryside and most of them do so in harmony. However motor vehicles pretty much make it impossible for anyone else to use the space. Ever tried walking alomng a foot path when there's a load of bikes or 4x4 around?
If you wish to have a hobby like this then do it nwhere you are supposed too and don't complain when no one wants you blasting round their local woods at all hours. It's not unreasonable to not want vehicles ripping up paths and ruining the scenery.
300bhp/ton said:
Really needs to be damage being done. As said earlier, a lot of so called damage is often/usually caused by horses and farm equipment, not light 4x4's. So even if there is damage that is not proof on what caused it.
Light 4x4s? How much do you thinks an old landrover weighs?Even a Scramblers on off road tyres will make a mess of a mud track after rain. It doesn't take much to turn a path into a quagmire that is very difficult for anyone to walk on.
Devil2575 said:
No, it was a general comment on the entire thread.
OK. Well, your "165 mph speeder" analogy is possibly the worst strawman I have seen thus far. No-one is supporting the minority of idiots who offroad like hooligans. I said so in my first post. You seem to be under the impression others are supporting them as well, which I find odd. Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff