Tax fine query
Discussion
Hoping somebody can shed some light. I sold my old bike (as part ex) to a dealer on the 13th September 2012. The tax ran out end of September. I am now receiving letters from a debt collection agency chasing me for £80 for failing to tax the vehicle.
I have proof (from DVLA) that I no longer own the bike, however this is dated January 2013 (the date when the dealer sold the bike on eventually).
I can however obtain proof from the dealer that I sold the bike to him before the tax ran out.
Do I have a leg to stand on here or am I screwed?
To make matters worse, I keep getting brain dead "computer says no" type people on the phone - each party (DVLA, Collectica) keeps passing me onto the other, saying I can't appeal to them and it has to be done through the other one. Going round in circles
I have proof (from DVLA) that I no longer own the bike, however this is dated January 2013 (the date when the dealer sold the bike on eventually).
I can however obtain proof from the dealer that I sold the bike to him before the tax ran out.
Do I have a leg to stand on here or am I screwed?
To make matters worse, I keep getting brain dead "computer says no" type people on the phone - each party (DVLA, Collectica) keeps passing me onto the other, saying I can't appeal to them and it has to be done through the other one. Going round in circles
Alpinestars said:
I had a similar issue and when I got through to DVLA they put me through to one of the local DVLA offices. I've not had any chasers since I spoke to them.
The highly intelligent lady I spoke to was having none of it. Her response to everything I asked (including to speak to her superior) was that "you need to pay the fine or write to the collection agency, we can't do nothing" etc. MJDM said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Did you send off the part V5 to DVLA notifying them it was sold to the trade?
I did, but I guess it failed to arrive. Not the first time I've been stung for things not arriving in the post. There have been legal cases which ratify that posting it is all you have to do. You are not responsible if Royal Mail fail to deliver, or DVLA lost it after they did.
Write to the DCA involved explaining that you dispute the debt and are taking it up the DVLA - that should keep them off your back briefly.
Write to DVLA, explaining that it was sold, that you sent proof of such a sale to them, and that you consider it dealt with.
You have anything that proves the date of sale? Invoice for new purchase etc?
Keep copies of all letters, and send recorded(?).
Write to DVLA, explaining that it was sold, that you sent proof of such a sale to them, and that you consider it dealt with.
You have anything that proves the date of sale? Invoice for new purchase etc?
Keep copies of all letters, and send recorded(?).
KevinOctiScout said:
Another story which would be simply avoided by ALWAYS using Special Delivery when dealing with the DVLA.
Thank you captain hindsighttigger1 said:
Write to the DCA involved explaining that you dispute the debt and are taking it up the DVLA - that should keep them off your back briefly.
Write to DVLA, explaining that it was sold, that you sent proof of such a sale to them, and that you consider it dealt with.
You have anything that proves the date of sale? Invoice for new purchase etc?
Keep copies of all letters, and send recorded(?).
Yeah I have proof of the date of sale. Going to send letters out to both parties this week. Hopefully that will put an end to it.Write to DVLA, explaining that it was sold, that you sent proof of such a sale to them, and that you consider it dealt with.
You have anything that proves the date of sale? Invoice for new purchase etc?
Keep copies of all letters, and send recorded(?).
MJDM said:
KevinOctiScout said:
Another story which would be simply avoided by ALWAYS using Special Delivery when dealing with the DVLA.
Thank you captain hindsightKevinOctiScout said:
MJDM said:
KevinOctiScout said:
Another story which would be simply avoided by ALWAYS using Special Delivery when dealing with the DVLA.
Thank you captain hindsightBump - could really do with some advice from the legal experts here.
I wrote to the DVLA enforcement centre, explaining the situation. I enclosed the receipt from the dealer showing the date that I sold my bike. I also explained to them that I could provide evidence from my insurance company showing that I stopped cover for said bike on the same date, should they require it.
I have received a response that looks like a generic template - it contains no reference to my individual case, nor the evidence I enclosed. It only contains a paragraph explaining why the late licencing penalty was introduced, etc etc.
I have requested a V991 dispute form. I would greatly appreciate any advice from some legal experts on here as to what I need to provide in order to win this appeal. I would have thought that proof of the transfer of my bike from the dealer would be enough? Otherwise it appears that am being fined £80 because of Royal Mail losing a letter.
Thanks in advance...
I wrote to the DVLA enforcement centre, explaining the situation. I enclosed the receipt from the dealer showing the date that I sold my bike. I also explained to them that I could provide evidence from my insurance company showing that I stopped cover for said bike on the same date, should they require it.
I have received a response that looks like a generic template - it contains no reference to my individual case, nor the evidence I enclosed. It only contains a paragraph explaining why the late licencing penalty was introduced, etc etc.
I have requested a V991 dispute form. I would greatly appreciate any advice from some legal experts on here as to what I need to provide in order to win this appeal. I would have thought that proof of the transfer of my bike from the dealer would be enough? Otherwise it appears that am being fined £80 because of Royal Mail losing a letter.
Thanks in advance...
MJDM said:
Yeah I have proof of the date of sale. Going to send letters out to both parties this week. Hopefully that will put an end to it.
How did the dealer pay you for the bike ?As long as it wasn't cash , you should be able to show the transaction from your bank records as evidence that it was sold at a particular time . If you have some sort of bill of sale from him agreeing to buy the bike on a certain date for a certain amount ( which matches your bank records ; even if you paid the same amount of cash into your account around the same time , a court would probably accept that as evidence of the sale ) , chances are you have all the evidence you need .
As others have alluded , the Interpretations Act will be helpful where you posted the notification off as required by law but it has gone astray .
MJDM said:
Bump - could really do with some advice from the legal experts here.
I wrote to the DVLA enforcement centre, explaining the situation. I enclosed the receipt from the dealer showing the date that I sold my bike. I also explained to them that I could provide evidence from my insurance company showing that I stopped cover for said bike on the same date, should they require it.
I have received a response that looks like a generic template - it contains no reference to my individual case, nor the evidence I enclosed. It only contains a paragraph explaining why the late licencing penalty was introduced, etc etc.
I have requested a V991 dispute form. I would greatly appreciate any advice from some legal experts on here as to what I need to provide in order to win this appeal. I would have thought that proof of the transfer of my bike from the dealer would be enough? Otherwise it appears that am being fined £80 because of Royal Mail losing a letter.
Thanks in advance...
Tell them you will see them in court ; they will lose .I wrote to the DVLA enforcement centre, explaining the situation. I enclosed the receipt from the dealer showing the date that I sold my bike. I also explained to them that I could provide evidence from my insurance company showing that I stopped cover for said bike on the same date, should they require it.
I have received a response that looks like a generic template - it contains no reference to my individual case, nor the evidence I enclosed. It only contains a paragraph explaining why the late licencing penalty was introduced, etc etc.
I have requested a V991 dispute form. I would greatly appreciate any advice from some legal experts on here as to what I need to provide in order to win this appeal. I would have thought that proof of the transfer of my bike from the dealer would be enough? Otherwise it appears that am being fined £80 because of Royal Mail losing a letter.
Thanks in advance...
Pontoneer said:
How did the dealer pay you for the bike ?
As long as it wasn't cash , you should be able to show the transaction from your bank records as evidence that it was sold at a particular time . If you have some sort of bill of sale from him agreeing to buy the bike on a certain date for a certain amount ( which matches your bank records ; even if you paid the same amount of cash into your account around the same time , a court would probably accept that as evidence of the sale ) , chances are you have all the evidence you need .
As others have alluded , the Interpretations Act will be helpful where you posted the notification off as required by law but it has gone astray .
I bought my new bike from the dealer, and used my old one in part exchange. I paid the difference using my debit card, so there is evidence of that transaction taking place.As long as it wasn't cash , you should be able to show the transaction from your bank records as evidence that it was sold at a particular time . If you have some sort of bill of sale from him agreeing to buy the bike on a certain date for a certain amount ( which matches your bank records ; even if you paid the same amount of cash into your account around the same time , a court would probably accept that as evidence of the sale ) , chances are you have all the evidence you need .
As others have alluded , the Interpretations Act will be helpful where you posted the notification off as required by law but it has gone astray .
Pontoneer said:
Tell them you will see them in court ; they will lose .
This is the only logical outcome I can imagine. I guess I am looking for some confirmation from somebody from a legal background, as if it did go to court, and I lost, I imagine I would then owe significantly more than the £80 fine.MJDM said:
Pontoneer said:
How did the dealer pay you for the bike ?
As long as it wasn't cash , you should be able to show the transaction from your bank records as evidence that it was sold at a particular time . If you have some sort of bill of sale from him agreeing to buy the bike on a certain date for a certain amount ( which matches your bank records ; even if you paid the same amount of cash into your account around the same time , a court would probably accept that as evidence of the sale ) , chances are you have all the evidence you need .
As others have alluded , the Interpretations Act will be helpful where you posted the notification off as required by law but it has gone astray .
I bought my new bike from the dealer, and used my old one in part exchange. I paid the difference using my debit card, so there is evidence of that transaction taking place.As long as it wasn't cash , you should be able to show the transaction from your bank records as evidence that it was sold at a particular time . If you have some sort of bill of sale from him agreeing to buy the bike on a certain date for a certain amount ( which matches your bank records ; even if you paid the same amount of cash into your account around the same time , a court would probably accept that as evidence of the sale ) , chances are you have all the evidence you need .
As others have alluded , the Interpretations Act will be helpful where you posted the notification off as required by law but it has gone astray .
Pontoneer said:
Tell them you will see them in court ; they will lose .
This is the only logical outcome I can imagine. I guess I am looking for some confirmation from somebody from a legal background, as if it did go to court, and I lost, I imagine I would then owe significantly more than the £80 fine.If you do a search on here , there are quoted cases where others have taken DVLA to court over exactly the same thing and have used the Interpretations Act ( which basically says that , once you have posted the form off as required by law , you have done all that is required of you and , effectively , DVLA would have to prove you never posted it ) .
I am no lawyer , but there should be some on here who can confirm this .
My own opinion is that it is wrong for an agency who make errors to then also be the arbiter of 'appeals' when things go wrong ; an appeal ought always to be to a higher authority , not the one who made the error in the first place .
I would be disinclined to 'appeal' and more inclined to 'reject' the fine and suggest that the proper place to argue the point is in court .
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