Just been scammed on Gumtree - how best to proceed?
Discussion
melhadfield said:
After 1 month, had a reply from my own bank saying they couldn't help, nothing from police or receiving bank...is fraud a crime?
Unfortunately not, the police class it as a civil matter. I got stung for about a grand on a fraud, and even though I got hold of a contact telephone number, and had a dud cheque from them (used in the fraud) the police could not have been less interested.I have no doubt the fraudster in my case is still doing the same thing day in, day out. It was relatively simple, and not a crime in the eyes of the police.
98elise said:
melhadfield said:
After 1 month, had a reply from my own bank saying they couldn't help, nothing from police or receiving bank...is fraud a crime?
Unfortunately not, the police class it as a civil matter. I got stung for about a grand on a fraud, and even though I got hold of a contact telephone number, and had a dud cheque from them (used in the fraud) the police could not have been less interested.I have no doubt the fraudster in my case is still doing the same thing day in, day out. It was relatively simple, and not a crime in the eyes of the police.
Action fraud will investigate the fraud together with others reported as linked to the same seller. Once they get to the bottom of whats been going on they will send an evidence package to the Police force area covering the area where the fraudster lives - that force will then deal with all of the jobs linked to them.
Police wont investigate until action fraud get back to them with their findings.
Police wont investigate until action fraud get back to them with their findings.
Efbe said:
98elise said:
melhadfield said:
After 1 month, had a reply from my own bank saying they couldn't help, nothing from police or receiving bank...is fraud a crime?
Unfortunately not, the police class it as a civil matter. I got stung for about a grand on a fraud, and even though I got hold of a contact telephone number, and had a dud cheque from them (used in the fraud) the police could not have been less interested.I have no doubt the fraudster in my case is still doing the same thing day in, day out. It was relatively simple, and not a crime in the eyes of the police.
Its not HIS bank that has the answers or the legal 'ability' to do more than pass the information/request to investigate to the other bank -(Natwest if I read it right).
Bear in mind that that the OP requested and actioned his own bank transfer. His bank cannot legally pull that money back - no matter how much they might feel it is just.
Its Natwest that needs to be contacted and told that their client has received money fraudulently, but they cannot do anything unless the police or the courts allow them to do so.
The Police would probably love to say 'on the basis of my investigation, the money should be returned immediately' (just like Paypal). But, that isnt their call, as they have to package the evidence up and pass it to the courts for a decision.
Im sorry to say that the law sometimes offers protection to the wrong side.
Hol said:
Its Natwest that needs to be contacted and told that their client has received money fraudulently, but they cannot do anything unless the police or the courts allow them to do so.
I don't believe that's completely true. I agree they cannot refund the money, but they could advise the OP of his address so that the OP can instigate civil action to recover the money.There is a section in the Data Protection Act that permits data holders to release data where is it required for legal action, or the consideration of legal action. Of course getting the data holder to comply may not be easy.
OP, first research the Act and then write to the account holders bank and request his address so that you can instigate a county court claim against him. Quote them the section of the Act under which they are obliged to provide you with this information. If they refuse, then make a complaint to the Information Commissioner.
Efbe said:
98elise said:
melhadfield said:
After 1 month, had a reply from my own bank saying they couldn't help, nothing from police or receiving bank...is fraud a crime?
Unfortunately not, the police class it as a civil matter. I got stung for about a grand on a fraud, and even though I got hold of a contact telephone number, and had a dud cheque from them (used in the fraud) the police could not have been less interested.I have no doubt the fraudster in my case is still doing the same thing day in, day out. It was relatively simple, and not a crime in the eyes of the police.
The buyer didn't even bother covering their tracks that well. I got their phone number, then tracked them down from that. Went to the police with it, and they said its a civil matter. Civil route got nowhere, the bloke just ignored the judgement.
Went back to to police and they still said its a civil matter. The bloke obviously knew what he was doing, and was completely above the law. What made it worse was he was in the Army. Being ex-forces myself you have a greater element of trust in forces people.
98elise said:
Civil route got nowhere, the bloke just ignored the judgement.
Went back to to police and they still said its a civil matter. The bloke obviously knew what he was doing, and was completely above the law. What made it worse was he was in the Army. Being ex-forces myself you have a greater element of trust in forces people.
1. If he is still in the Army escalate to his senior officerWent back to to police and they still said its a civil matter. The bloke obviously knew what he was doing, and was completely above the law. What made it worse was he was in the Army. Being ex-forces myself you have a greater element of trust in forces people.
2. Escalate to County Court and set their baliffs on him
Hol said:
Efbe said:
98elise said:
melhadfield said:
After 1 month, had a reply from my own bank saying they couldn't help, nothing from police or receiving bank...is fraud a crime?
Unfortunately not, the police class it as a civil matter. I got stung for about a grand on a fraud, and even though I got hold of a contact telephone number, and had a dud cheque from them (used in the fraud) the police could not have been less interested.I have no doubt the fraudster in my case is still doing the same thing day in, day out. It was relatively simple, and not a crime in the eyes of the police.
Its NOT a civil matter - OP has been subject of fraud. We transfer these investigations to Action fraud every day. Police will deal once Action fraud finish their investigations and compile an evidence pack for Police to deal
Its not HIS bank that has the answers or the legal 'ability' to do more than pass the information/request to investigate to the other bank -(Natwest if I read it right).
Bear in mind that that the OP requested and actioned his own bank transfer. His bank cannot legally pull that money back - no matter how much they might feel it is just.
Its Natwest that needs to be contacted and told that their client has received money fraudulently, but they cannot do anything unless the police or the courts allow them to do so.
The Police would probably love to say 'on the basis of my investigation, the money should be returned immediately' (just like Paypal). But, that isnt their call, as they have to package the evidence up and pass it to the courts for a decision.
Im sorry to say that the law sometimes offers protection to the wrong side.
Well, well...just had a call from Norfolk Police...
They have arrested one of the scammers, who is currently in custody awaiting trial. He was one of several individuals who made up the gang and police are not convinced he's the main man. However, he was the account holder whose account had all the funds from bank transfers, which obviously was a crucial part of the operation.
The detective apologised for the time taken to bring the case to court, but said they were very tenacious and take all fraud very seriously. He said he would update on the court case outcome in due course.
Once again, thanks to all those folk who helped out or gave advice and encouragement.
They have arrested one of the scammers, who is currently in custody awaiting trial. He was one of several individuals who made up the gang and police are not convinced he's the main man. However, he was the account holder whose account had all the funds from bank transfers, which obviously was a crucial part of the operation.
The detective apologised for the time taken to bring the case to court, but said they were very tenacious and take all fraud very seriously. He said he would update on the court case outcome in due course.
Once again, thanks to all those folk who helped out or gave advice and encouragement.
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