Cost cutting + adviocate monitoring in the criminal courts
Discussion
I do agree, RH. I think we have become too expensive. Also, there are too many lawyers, and law schools are being greedy, and unfair to students by letting too many in, taking their money, and launching them into a difficult job market with little prospect of being hired.
I would happily see some reduction in overall charging rates, especially at the top end of the market, but not at the expense of effective access to justice, and the Government's policy is heading in that direction.
I would happily see some reduction in overall charging rates, especially at the top end of the market, but not at the expense of effective access to justice, and the Government's policy is heading in that direction.
Breadvan72 said:
I would happily see some reduction in overall charging rates, especially at the top end of the market, but not at the expense of effective access to justice, and the Government's policy is heading in that direction.
Rovinghawk said:
I also work in a skilled profession needing training & resources. I agree the concept of with reward commensurate with effort & skill but still suggest that the legal profession presumes a higher reward than many others would consider fair.
RH
How long is your training and how much does it cost?RH
Rovinghawk said:
Four years plus CPD, thousands of pounds, pints of sweat & the occasional drop of blood. My point at the end of page 1 still stands.
RH
So you're in a profession where market forces dictate a lower reward. There is an element of tough luck to that.RH
Also, Legal Aid lawyers really are not paid very well.
Also, my barrister is a 'senior junior' with a fantastic reputation, but is willing to work for a lower hourly rate than my solicitor.
Rovinghawk said:
Four years plus CPD, thousands of pounds, pints of sweat & the occasional drop of blood. My point at the end of page 1 still stands.
RH
That is quite surprising - most professions I can think of which require significant and expensive training lead to a reasonable level of reward in time. RH
If it helps you though, my last course was 15k. Then add on travel (2k to London) and extras.
10 Pence Short said:
So you're in a profession where market forces dictate a lower reward. There is an element of tough luck to that.
Sad but true.10 Pence Short said:
Legal Aid lawyers really are not paid very well.
This is definitely the saddest thing I've ever heard. I still think they're a considerable distance from the breadline.RH
ks!Breadvan72 said:
I do agree, RH. I think we have become too expensive. Also, there are too many lawyers, and law schools are being greedy, and unfair to students by letting too many in, taking their money, and launching them into a difficult job market with little prospect of being hired.
I would happily see some reduction in overall charging rates, especially at the top end of the market, but not at the expense of effective access to justice, and the Government's policy is heading in that direction.
Breadvan72, I read most of your postings on here and think that you have a very level-headed approach and are someone who's opinion I would trust. This is another example of that thinking, but there is a problem in my eyes that is not being addressed. I would happily see some reduction in overall charging rates, especially at the top end of the market, but not at the expense of effective access to justice, and the Government's policy is heading in that direction.
I am not unhappy to pay £120 per hour when I believe that I am actually getting that time devoted to my case and value is being added. Recently I got sight of a legal bill for one of my soldiers; complete with the documentation that went with it. There were a number of charges that were just ridiculous and obviously only put in to bump up the cost of the case. The best example of this is the fee for writing a letter. Now I understand that nothing in this life is free and that letters are an important part of the process but what I find incredible is that a letter that states “thank you for your letter dated xx xxx 2013. It has been received and a response will be forthcoming in due course.” is billed at £80 as that we the standard basic fee for a letter! There has been no legal thought put in, it does not advance the case in any way and will have taken a secretary 5 minutes to write (if that) but still commands a £80 fee! It is this that I believe needs addressing not the basic hourly rate.
I thought all prices in any market were controlled by supply and demand?
If lawyers weren't worth what they get paid then someone else would just undercut them and the prices would drop wouldn't they?
Breadvan already said there are too many qualified lawyers, I guess I don't understand how the prices can be too high if this is the case.
If lawyers weren't worth what they get paid then someone else would just undercut them and the prices would drop wouldn't they?
Breadvan already said there are too many qualified lawyers, I guess I don't understand how the prices can be too high if this is the case.
LocoCoco said:
If lawyers weren't worth what they get paid then someone else would just undercut them and the prices would drop wouldn't they?
Well, that's the theory. I think the current situation with lawyers is similar to how it was with opticians before firms like Specsavers, and even Tesco, entered the market.singlecoil said:
Breadvan72 said:
It is being proved on a daily basis already in the criminal courts, and the evidence is likely to build up over time. The public clamours for effective criminal justice, but the Government proposes to do it all for a tenner.
That's it, that's your proof?Breadvan72 said:
singlecoil said:
Breadvan72 said:
It is being proved on a daily basis already in the criminal courts, and the evidence is likely to build up over time. The public clamours for effective criminal justice, but the Government proposes to do it all for a tenner.
That's it, that's your proof?Everything and everybody is being affected by the fact that there simply isn't as much money available for all the things that we would like to spend it on as there used to be. Each time something important is affected by cost cutting there will be people who will say that it shouldn't happen. A more productive approach would be to suggest alternatives that would achieve the necessary results without the worst of the ill effects.
singlecoil said:
I really don't have time, I'm afraid.
Everything and everybody is being affected by the fact that there simply isn't as much money available for all the things that we would like to spend it on as there used to be. Each time something important is affected by cost cutting there will be people who will say that it shouldn't happen. A more productive approach would be to suggest alternatives that would achieve the necessary results without the worst of the ill effects.
The truth is we have for some years been paying ourselves, either directly through wages or indirectly in terms of pension benefits etc, too much money. This applies at all levels from the public sector to banking and the legal proffession.Everything and everybody is being affected by the fact that there simply isn't as much money available for all the things that we would like to spend it on as there used to be. Each time something important is affected by cost cutting there will be people who will say that it shouldn't happen. A more productive approach would be to suggest alternatives that would achieve the necessary results without the worst of the ill effects.
We don't make enough money as a country to pay ourselves as much as we do.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff