Cost cutting + adviocate monitoring in the criminal courts
Discussion
singlecoil said:
"It warned this would make it harder for female barristers, who work fewer hours than men on average, to pursue a career in the criminal Bar and deter those from poorer backgrounds."
Any particular reason why female barristers work fewer hours than men?
Obviously because they can't parallel park Any particular reason why female barristers work fewer hours than men?
defblade said:
singlecoil said:
Any particular reason why female barristers work fewer hours than men?
Babies/children. Although this is not a phenomenon restricted to barristers.If it is child care that causes female barristers to work less hours then it's safe to assume that this is a personal choice on their part.
You are Purple Moonlight AICMFP. What might happen if all women made the "personal choice" not to have children or look after children? Women in all areas of the economy tend to take on more childcare work than men, and the average pay gap between men and women remains at something like eight per cent, 45 years after the Equal Pay Act. That's another topic. The Bar Council's point s that low pay for lawyers (who pay very large amounts for training) is not likely to encourage diversity at the Bar.
The Bar used to be white, male, and posh. Then it became less white, less male, and less posh. Now, because of the need for bank of mum and dad in the early stages, or even a private income for later stages, it is again becoming white and posh (although now gender-mixed). My chambers has recruited several excellent people who come from very non posh backgrounds, but increasingly the people that we see in the recruitment process are predominantly white and from upper middle class backgrounds, because only they can afford the expensive training (provided by commercial organisations that seem to care only for billing) and the risks and uncertainties of self employment. There are moves afoot for the Bar to re take control of training, reduce the costs and improve the quality, but this may take a while and, of course, the Government favours a so called competitive market of high price low quality training providers.
The Bar used to be white, male, and posh. Then it became less white, less male, and less posh. Now, because of the need for bank of mum and dad in the early stages, or even a private income for later stages, it is again becoming white and posh (although now gender-mixed). My chambers has recruited several excellent people who come from very non posh backgrounds, but increasingly the people that we see in the recruitment process are predominantly white and from upper middle class backgrounds, because only they can afford the expensive training (provided by commercial organisations that seem to care only for billing) and the risks and uncertainties of self employment. There are moves afoot for the Bar to re take control of training, reduce the costs and improve the quality, but this may take a while and, of course, the Government favours a so called competitive market of high price low quality training providers.
singlecoil said:
Breadvan72 said:
What might happen if all women made the "personal choice" not to have children or look after children?
That is never, ever going to happen. We might as well discuss what would happen if we all went to Mars.IIRC the gender split for pay shows that women now earn fractionally more, on average, until they reach the point at which they have babies. The gender pay gap has been removed, and what we now have is a child-rearing pay gap that disproportionately affects women because they are usually the ones to stay at home to look after the baby.
Even if we equalised the burden of child-rearing somehow, we still lose talent to child-rearing. It's just that you would lose more men than you do now.
Even if we equalised the burden of child-rearing somehow, we still lose talent to child-rearing. It's just that you would lose more men than you do now.
Breadvan72 said:
singlecoil said:
Breadvan72 said:
What might happen if all women made the "personal choice" not to have children or look after children?
That is never, ever going to happen. We might as well discuss what would happen if we all went to Mars.I don't believe there is a 'societal need for children' (there was at one time, but not any longer, there's too many people here already), so we are bound to hold different positions on this sort of thing.
singlecoil said:
Well that would be a problem if the talent was needed for anything, but market forces being what they are, I daresay the gap will be filled somehow.
I don't believe there is a 'societal need for children' (there was at one time, but not any longer, there's too many people here already), so we are bound to hold different positions on this sort of thing.
Really? Ok so tomorrow every woman from then on decides not to have children. Would this be a problem? I don't believe there is a 'societal need for children' (there was at one time, but not any longer, there's too many people here already), so we are bound to hold different positions on this sort of thing.
Devil2575 said:
singlecoil said:
Well that would be a problem if the talent was needed for anything, but market forces being what they are, I daresay the gap will be filled somehow.
I don't believe there is a 'societal need for children' (there was at one time, but not any longer, there's too many people here already), so we are bound to hold different positions on this sort of thing.
Really? Ok so tomorrow every woman from then on decides not to have children. Would this be a problem? I don't believe there is a 'societal need for children' (there was at one time, but not any longer, there's too many people here already), so we are bound to hold different positions on this sort of thing.
My issue is not with whether or not women are going to decide not to have children, partly because that's never going to happen and partly because that is definitely never going to happen.
My issue is with the implied claim that anybody having children is doing the rest of us some kind of good. It isn't. If people want to have children because they want to have children then they should go ahead, not that I could stop them if I wanted to. Just don't claim that there's any benefit for anybody else, and that we should all want everybody to have children.
singlecoil said:
My issue is with the implied claim that anybody having children is doing the rest of us some kind of good. It isn't. If people want to have children because they want to have children then they should go ahead, not that I could stop them if I wanted to. Just don't claim that there's any benefit for anybody else, and that we should all want everybody to have children.
Quite. The only benefit to everyone having children is that we get working age adults 18 years later. Importing them ready made from mainland Europe makes more sense for the Exchequer, and avoids a long lead time which can lead to demand and supply mismatch.davepoth said:
Quite. The only benefit to everyone having children is that we get working age adults 18 years later. Importing them ready made from mainland Europe makes more sense for the Exchequer, and avoids a long lead time which can lead to demand and supply mismatch.
I can't work out whether you're being serious or not...Devil2575 said:
davepoth said:
Quite. The only benefit to everyone having children is that we get working age adults 18 years later. Importing them ready made from mainland Europe makes more sense for the Exchequer, and avoids a long lead time which can lead to demand and supply mismatch.
I can't work out whether you're being serious or not...
The general misanthropy of PH quite often includes the curiously sneery and negative attitude towards human reproduction that is in evident in some posts above. The view often comes bundled with some good solid misogyny. This is just one of those weird PH things. You might think that people who like cars would be a cheerful bunch, but if you read this sub forum and N,P&L you could be forgiven for thinking that the average petrolhead hates everybody and everything (except for his Audi or 320d, perhaps). Luckily, PH is not very representative of anything, as far as I can tell.
Anyway, I am now off to Bicester Village BLING-O-DROME on the Sunday before Xmas, so I expect that in a few hours I shall be hating all of humanity with a fervent passion.
Anyway, I am now off to Bicester Village BLING-O-DROME on the Sunday before Xmas, so I expect that in a few hours I shall be hating all of humanity with a fervent passion.
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