Cost cutting + adviocate monitoring in the criminal courts
Discussion
Devil2575 said:
singlecoil said:
Well that would be a problem if the talent was needed for anything, but market forces being what they are, I daresay the gap will be filled somehow.
I don't believe there is a 'societal need for children' (there was at one time, but not any longer, there's too many people here already), so we are bound to hold different positions on this sort of thing.
Really? Ok so tomorrow every woman from then on decides not to have children. Would this be a problem? I don't believe there is a 'societal need for children' (there was at one time, but not any longer, there's too many people here already), so we are bound to hold different positions on this sort of thing.
defblade said:
Breadvan72 said:
Anyway, I am now off to Bicester Village BLING-O-DROME on the Sunday before Xmas, so I expect that in a few hours I shall be hating all of humanity with a fervent passion.
I won't take that long. I n fact, I'd not be surprised if it happened before you've even parked 
ePALACEOFSHAME I hit solid traffic, with "no parking cones" on the roadside, hi-viz dudes trying to give directions, and every sign of a mega crawl to get into the TAT-A-TORIUM. I abandoned shoppage, made a neat three pointer, and blatted back on the same road, even faster than I had come. I rang the Missoni to extend the hold on a frock that I am buying for the mad Polish bird of my dreams, and will swing by and collect it on Tuesday. Then I went and bought Xmas knick knacks in Thame, which was quiet and friendly and OMG chav shoppa free. I saw there a fabby three door Rangey (1972) and some cool US muscle car (a mid 70s Dodge, I think). I abandoned a not very sensible plan to have lunch with my ex wife. Thus I am at peace with the world. Phew, dodged a bullet there.Now I'm off to Stansted via pre Xmas M40-M25-M11 to collect my daughter who is returning from a ski trip. That may knacker my mood a bit, but whatevs.
Back on topic: none of this could happen if I had to live on legal aid rates!
Give it 15-20 years and the legal profession will have shrunk considerably
the law might be massively complex in it's scale, but ultimately comes down to decisions based on a lot of relatively simple rules, exactly what computers are good at
sooner rather than later someone will come up with a system which given the facts can decide a case at least as fairly as the courts, then possibly within 5 years, such a system will be available on the desk of every judge and every solicitor with a subscription
From then the legal profession becomes nothing to do with law, and simply about presenting the facts, and you can bet that computers will start to have a very big hand in that too, reducing almost the entire legal profession to mere computer operators.
In 20 or so years time making a civil claim will be like applying for a loan today, the computer will say yes or no and how much, and that will be that.
the law might be massively complex in it's scale, but ultimately comes down to decisions based on a lot of relatively simple rules, exactly what computers are good at
sooner rather than later someone will come up with a system which given the facts can decide a case at least as fairly as the courts, then possibly within 5 years, such a system will be available on the desk of every judge and every solicitor with a subscription
From then the legal profession becomes nothing to do with law, and simply about presenting the facts, and you can bet that computers will start to have a very big hand in that too, reducing almost the entire legal profession to mere computer operators.
In 20 or so years time making a civil claim will be like applying for a loan today, the computer will say yes or no and how much, and that will be that.
Countdown said:
Why would that ever happen? It didn't happen before the Government started subsidising certain aspects of childcare, why should it happen now?
I was responding to a very specific post. You need to understand the context of my post before replying.However helping women enter the workforce while still having a family is not a bad thing.
ging84 said:
Give it 15-20 years and the legal profession will have shrunk considerably
the law might be massively complex in it's scale, but ultimately comes down to decisions based on a lot of relatively simple rules, exactly what computers are good at
sooner rather than later someone will come up with a system which given the facts can decide a case at least as fairly as the courts, then possibly within 5 years, such a system will be available on the desk of every judge and every solicitor with a subscription
From then the legal profession becomes nothing to do with law, and simply about presenting the facts, and you can bet that computers will start to have a very big hand in that too, reducing almost the entire legal profession to mere computer operators.
In 20 or so years time making a civil claim will be like applying for a loan today, the computer will say yes or no and how much, and that will be that.
I doubt it.the law might be massively complex in it's scale, but ultimately comes down to decisions based on a lot of relatively simple rules, exactly what computers are good at
sooner rather than later someone will come up with a system which given the facts can decide a case at least as fairly as the courts, then possibly within 5 years, such a system will be available on the desk of every judge and every solicitor with a subscription
From then the legal profession becomes nothing to do with law, and simply about presenting the facts, and you can bet that computers will start to have a very big hand in that too, reducing almost the entire legal profession to mere computer operators.
In 20 or so years time making a civil claim will be like applying for a loan today, the computer will say yes or no and how much, and that will be that.
A lot comes down to interpretation of the law and Judges can and do disagree.
ging84 said:
Give it 15-20 years and the legal profession will have shrunk considerably
the law might be massively complex in it's scale, but ultimately comes down to decisions based on a lot of relatively simple rules, exactly what computers are good at
sooner rather than later someone will come up with a system which given the facts can decide a case at least as fairly as the courts, then possibly within 5 years, such a system will be available on the desk of every judge and every solicitor with a subscription
From then the legal profession becomes nothing to do with law, and simply about presenting the facts, and you can bet that computers will start to have a very big hand in that too, reducing almost the entire legal profession to mere computer operators.
In 20 or so years time making a civil claim will be like applying for a loan today, the computer will say yes or no and how much, and that will be that.
Not in a million years. What if somebody lies? Civil cases are frequently based on precedent rather than statute too. We'll have autonomous transport long before we have Robo-Breadvan.the law might be massively complex in it's scale, but ultimately comes down to decisions based on a lot of relatively simple rules, exactly what computers are good at
sooner rather than later someone will come up with a system which given the facts can decide a case at least as fairly as the courts, then possibly within 5 years, such a system will be available on the desk of every judge and every solicitor with a subscription
From then the legal profession becomes nothing to do with law, and simply about presenting the facts, and you can bet that computers will start to have a very big hand in that too, reducing almost the entire legal profession to mere computer operators.
In 20 or so years time making a civil claim will be like applying for a loan today, the computer will say yes or no and how much, and that will be that.
You can think up a million and 1 reasons why it'll never work or never happen, but it already is, money claim online already deals with thousands of civil cases every month completely impersonally, it's not quite a fully automated process, but it's not going to be that far away.
People will have said the same things about automated credit scoring 40 odd years ago, back then the idea of computers being able to reliably make credit decisions based on a little bit of financial history was inconceivable to most people, now it's pretty much inconceivable that anyone could do it manually.
People will have said the same things about automated credit scoring 40 odd years ago, back then the idea of computers being able to reliably make credit decisions based on a little bit of financial history was inconceivable to most people, now it's pretty much inconceivable that anyone could do it manually.
ging84 said:
You can think up a million and 1 reasons why it'll never work or never happen, but it already is, money claim online already deals with thousands of civil cases every month completely impersonally, it's not quite a fully automated process, but it's not going to be that far away.
People will have said the same things about automated credit scoring 40 odd years ago, back then the idea of computers being able to reliably make credit decisions based on a little bit of financial history was inconceivable to most people, now it's pretty much inconceivable that anyone could do it manually.
I think in some respects you're right. There's little chance of a robotic BV72 as mentioned above, but would anybody really mind all that much if (for example) the system for purchasing a house didn't have to involve solicitors? Every person I've ever spoken to about it has thought the whole process was a mess.People will have said the same things about automated credit scoring 40 odd years ago, back then the idea of computers being able to reliably make credit decisions based on a little bit of financial history was inconceivable to most people, now it's pretty much inconceivable that anyone could do it manually.
ging84 said:
You can think up a million and 1 reasons why it'll never work or never happen, but it already is, money claim online already deals with thousands of civil cases every month completely impersonally, it's not quite a fully automated process, but it's not going to be that far away.
....
You are either spoofing or are hilariously ill informed. You seem to think that MCOL is a computerised decision making process. It is not. It is a system for making claims online. The claims are then, if disputed, decided on by humans. The idea that you could create a program that could substitute for human judgment without first inventing fully autonomous artificial intelligence is laughable. If you think that the law is just a simple set of rules, you are merely betraying how little you know of the subject. The law is not just black letters on a page that people memorise and apply in some mechanistic way. There's a lot of nuance, and the untidy world of facts and fibs. I suppose that next you will be telling us that medicine is easy peasy and could be done by a computer.....
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 21st December 23:37
Breadvan72 said:
The general misanthropy of PH quite often includes the curiously sneery and negative attitude towards human reproduction that is in evident in some posts above. The view often comes bundled with some good solid misogyny. This is just one of those weird PH things. You might think that people who like cars would be a cheerful bunch, but if you read this sub forum and N,P&L you could be forgiven for thinking that the average petrolhead hates everybody and everything (except for his Audi or 320d, perhaps). Luckily, PH is not very representative of anything, as far as I can tell.
I think that there are a fair chunck of people on PH who care more about their possessions than other people. Not all, or even that majority (except on N,P&E) but a fair chunk. Of course they're not happy, because despite what the advertisers tell us a flash car doesn't make you happy, and neither does any other possession for that matter.Devil2575 said:
I think that there are a fair chunck of people on PH who care more about their possessions than other people. Not all, or even that majority (except on N,P&E) but a fair chunk. Of course they're not happy, because despite what the advertisers tell us a flash car doesn't make you happy, and neither does any other possession for that matter.
I'm curious. How would you be able to form such an opinion? I daresay there are plenty of people who talk about things they own or would like to, but how on earth does that mean that they care more about them than they do about 'other people'? As for advertisers telling people that their products will make them happy? Not seen that either.
Devil2575 said:
Breadvan72 said:
The general misanthropy of PH quite often includes the curiously sneery and negative attitude towards human reproduction that is in evident in some posts above. The view often comes bundled with some good solid misogyny. This is just one of those weird PH things. You might think that people who like cars would be a cheerful bunch, but if you read this sub forum and N,P&L you could be forgiven for thinking that the average petrolhead hates everybody and everything (except for his Audi or 320d, perhaps). Luckily, PH is not very representative of anything, as far as I can tell.
I think that there are a fair chunck of people on PH who care more about their possessions than other people. Not all, or even that majority (except on N,P&E) but a fair chunk. Of course they're not happy, because despite what the advertisers tell us a flash car doesn't make you happy, and neither does any other possession for that matter.singlecoil said:
Devil2575 said:
I think that there are a fair chunck of people on PH who care more about their possessions than other people. Not all, or even that majority (except on N,P&E) but a fair chunk. Of course they're not happy, because despite what the advertisers tell us a flash car doesn't make you happy, and neither does any other possession for that matter.
I'm curious. How would you be able to form such an opinion? I daresay there are plenty of people who talk about things they own or would like to, but how on earth does that mean that they care more about them than they do about 'other people'? As for advertisers telling people that their products will make them happy? Not seen that either.
My opinion is based on what I read and see.
One person on PH even replied to one of my posts (On N,P&E) with "You can't make me care about other people!"
If you have never met anyone who cares more about being able to afford a flash motor or big house than treating people they come across in life with respect and care then you are a lucky person.
Devil2575 said:
One person on PH even replied to one of my posts (On N,P&E) with "You can't make me care about other people!"
Why should he care about other people? What does he actually mean by that anyway, or what do you think he means?'Flash motors' might be saying more about you than it is about the subject. What about cars which aren't 'flash' but about which the owner cares? Maybe cars which people post about on PH?
singlecoil said:
Devil2575 said:
One person on PH even replied to one of my posts (On N,P&E) with "You can't make me care about other people!"
Why should he care about other people? What does he actually mean by that anyway, or what do you think he means?'Flash motors' might be saying more about you than it is about the subject. What about cars which aren't 'flash' but about which the owner cares? Maybe cars which people post about on PH?
Flash motors says nothing about me, it could be any object. The point could be made just as well by saying that some people care more about the accumulation of personal weatlh than they do about other people.
I think there are people like that on PH.
Devil2575 said:
...The point could be made just as well by saying that some people care more about the accumulation of personal wealth than they do about other people.
I think there are people like that on PH.
You're serious, aren't you? You really are telling me that there are people on PH who will go to work and make money rather than roam the streets looking for people in need and doing good things for them?I think there are people like that on PH.
Of course on the male/female debate we will always have this issue of 'female talent drain' for so long as society deems it somehow wrong for men to raise children. Obviously the production line part of things is a bit biologically set but once babe is removed from the real teat and popped on magic grow plus formula the sex of the person with day to day care is irrelevant.
Yet for some reason there is little appetite to promote men leaving work to look after and raise their child, whereas women are encouraged to do so and expect the lift to still be on the same floor as it was when they got off when they come back.
Remember that as a society we should be aiming for gender equality for all, not what we have today where some areas are male dominated and some are female dominated, yet only the male dominated ones are scrutinised.
Oh and someone needs to tell a lot of people that really truly they can’t have it all…
singlecoil said:
You're serious, aren't you? You really are telling me that there are people on PH who will go to work and make money rather than roam the streets looking for people in need and doing good things for them?
Now tell me, which logical fallacy have you just resorted to?That clearly isn't what I meant you cupid stunt.
Edited by Devil2575 on Monday 21st December 18:41
Edited by Devil2575 on Monday 21st December 18:45
Devil2575 said:
Now tell me, which logical fallacy have you just resorted to?
That clearly isn't what I meant you cupid stunt.
Then WTF did you mean when you said this? It doesn't make any kind of sense.That clearly isn't what I meant you cupid stunt.
Devil2575 said:
The point could be made just as well by saying that some people care more about the accumulation of personal weatlh than they do about other people.
I think there are people like that on PH.
Try giving an example, that might help get your point across.I think there are people like that on PH.
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