Driver clips cyclist, doesn't tweet about it
Discussion
[quote=Parsnip]
You doing that would be you deliberatley causing disruption. The cyclists aren't trying to cause you disruption, they are trying to keep safe.
Cycling 2 abreast is to force drivers to give you room (which works) and also to make the overtake easier as you are overtaking a shorter thing - if there isn't room to get past 2 cyclists riding side by side, then there isn't room to get past one. [quote]
Well said Parsnip. I think the problem is a lot of people do not seem to know how to overtake. How many times have you been sat behind seemingly a convoy of vehicles who are all being held up by a caravan. They seem unable to read the road/road markings and the situation so instead wait for a dual (corrected from duel) carriageway.
I should add though that I do try and make space for drivers to pass and so often will go from two abreast to single file. The trouble is you get two drivers that come past those that leave plenty of room sometimes a cars width (highway code readers or overly cautious?) or those that seem to think it is funny to try and side swipe you or scare you (making a statement or unable to judge distance?)
My belief is that all should have to cycle for a year and get their cycling proficiency before applying for a car licence. It would prevent fatsos and give drivers a better insight into the risks a cyclist takes.
Pip
You doing that would be you deliberatley causing disruption. The cyclists aren't trying to cause you disruption, they are trying to keep safe.
Cycling 2 abreast is to force drivers to give you room (which works) and also to make the overtake easier as you are overtaking a shorter thing - if there isn't room to get past 2 cyclists riding side by side, then there isn't room to get past one. [quote]
Well said Parsnip. I think the problem is a lot of people do not seem to know how to overtake. How many times have you been sat behind seemingly a convoy of vehicles who are all being held up by a caravan. They seem unable to read the road/road markings and the situation so instead wait for a dual (corrected from duel) carriageway.
I should add though that I do try and make space for drivers to pass and so often will go from two abreast to single file. The trouble is you get two drivers that come past those that leave plenty of room sometimes a cars width (highway code readers or overly cautious?) or those that seem to think it is funny to try and side swipe you or scare you (making a statement or unable to judge distance?)
My belief is that all should have to cycle for a year and get their cycling proficiency before applying for a car licence. It would prevent fatsos and give drivers a better insight into the risks a cyclist takes.
Pip
Edited by Pip1968 on Tuesday 28th May 17:45
Edited by Pip1968 on Tuesday 28th May 17:46
If you take issue with the photo, I would get onto those fellas at the highway code.
I supposed what they are getting at is that you should overtake the same way you would a car - if there is traffic on the other side of the road then the overtake isn't on - so 2 abreast should in theory make no difference to the way you overtake. Of course, they could mean you need to overtake in the opposite field, but I doubt it.
putting it another way - 6 cyclists single file is the length of a lorry - 6 cyclists 2 abreast is roughly the same length as a car - which one is easier to overtake. What about 20 cyclists?
I supposed what they are getting at is that you should overtake the same way you would a car - if there is traffic on the other side of the road then the overtake isn't on - so 2 abreast should in theory make no difference to the way you overtake. Of course, they could mean you need to overtake in the opposite field, but I doubt it.
putting it another way - 6 cyclists single file is the length of a lorry - 6 cyclists 2 abreast is roughly the same length as a car - which one is easier to overtake. What about 20 cyclists?
Edited by Parsnip on Tuesday 28th May 18:53
Durzel said:
Being slightly pedantic but if that were a car in that photo and you were "giving as much space as you'd give a car", you'd pretty much be touching wingmirrors unless the nearside car was itself almost on the grass (or pavement in this case)
Actually I think the issue here is space - if that Audi was giving another car as much space as he's giving the cyclist he'd be right up on the pavement. The instruction makes no sense (or is deliberately designed to put motorists in violation of the highway code.)
Munter said:
simoid said:
No, you're confusing me with Parsnip, methinks.
Well you did start arguing his side of the argument. I'm trying to figure out where you are.(If 1 cyclist needs the same amount of space as X cyclists, at some number of X, you'll plough into a cyclist while overtaking. Therefore, the outside cyclist always needs plenty of room is my position.)
simoid said:
No I didn't, I was ridiculing his side of the argument...
(If 1 cyclist needs the same amount of space as X cyclists, at some number of X, you'll plough into a cyclist while overtaking. Therefore, the outside cyclist always needs plenty of room is my position.)
One cyclist alone ought to be riding close to the primary position (middle of the left lane) to help cars see them from a distance. Two cyclists together could ride two abreast with one in the primary position and one in the secondary position (60cm from the kerbish). So a car can pass either a single rider or two abreast safely and still move well over to leave plenty of space between the car and riders.(If 1 cyclist needs the same amount of space as X cyclists, at some number of X, you'll plough into a cyclist while overtaking. Therefore, the outside cyclist always needs plenty of room is my position.)
The difficulty comes on narrower roads when there isn't space to ride in primary and secondary position without pushing the primary position further out towards the centre line of the road. In that situation, a car could still overtake by crossing into the next lane, but would indeed have to pass "too close". In theory, good cyclists will have spotted the car waiting to overtake and dropped back to single file to make it safer. Often what happens In practice is either the car is too impatient to wait for the cyclists to move, or the cyclists are too militant/lacking in observation to move over, so the car passes closer than is ideal.
Neonblau said:
T0nup said:
I'll get over it, when cyclists are licenced, pay road tax and have to have compulsory insurance, so I guess I never will.
Oh no not again.Parsnip on the 16th of April said:
I own a top VED band car, so already pay a fair chunk of VED each year. The missus owns something a bit more sensible and so pays less. I also own a bike - even if it was a part of the VED system, it would cost me £0. I tell you what, because I am such a highroller, I will pay VED for everone on PHs bicycle today - my cheque for £0 is winging its way to Westminster now - so then next mouth breather who bleats about "Its not fair, they don't pay tax" just quote this post, I have paid it for you.
I have already paid the VED for all the bikes on PH, so we are all good - could expand it to everyone in the UK - will have to have a dig in my wallet for £0 again.How do you propose the licencing? Imagine the scene: Little Timmy (aged 7) runs downstairs on christmas morning to find Santa has left a nice, shiny new bike under the tree, only little he can't ride it, because the DVLA is shut till Tuesday and he needs to wait while he sends off a load of forms. It would cost a fortune to implement and where would it lead? People having to register and fit a ID plate to every crappy rustbucket bike they have in their garage? Unless of course that 1991 Raleigh mountain bike in your garage is SORNed?
This dizzy spaniel needs putting down. I have no idea how people have allowed her to creep and crawl around this playing the victim. People like this need banning from life, shes a horrible piece of scum who is only going to continue to mess peoples lives. Shes the kind of woman who is so quick to the crocodile tears, so easy to blame you first and alway the victim.
MrTrilby said:
One cyclist alone ought to be riding close to the primary position (middle of the left lane) to help cars see them from a distance. Two cyclists together could ride two abreast with one in the primary position and one in the secondary position (60cm from the kerbish). So a car can pass either a single rider or two abreast safely and still move well over to leave plenty of space between the car and riders.
The difficulty comes on narrower roads when there isn't space to ride in primary and secondary position without pushing the primary position further out towards the centre line of the road. In that situation, a car could still overtake by crossing into the next lane, but would indeed have to pass "too close". In theory, good cyclists will have spotted thea car waiting to overtake and dropped back to single file to make it safer. Often what happens In practice is either the car is too impatient to wait for the cyclists to move, or the cyclists are too militant/lacking in observation to move over, so the car passes closer than is ideal.
Shouldn't the cyclist afford the other cyclist the same space as if he were overtaking a car? Seems a bit hypocritical...The difficulty comes on narrower roads when there isn't space to ride in primary and secondary position without pushing the primary position further out towards the centre line of the road. In that situation, a car could still overtake by crossing into the next lane, but would indeed have to pass "too close". In theory, good cyclists will have spotted thea car waiting to overtake and dropped back to single file to make it safer. Often what happens In practice is either the car is too impatient to wait for the cyclists to move, or the cyclists are too militant/lacking in observation to move over, so the car passes closer than is ideal.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff