MLM fines come into place today

MLM fines come into place today

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Hooli

32,278 posts

199 months

Friday 16th August 2013
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Randy Winkman said:
And with regard to hogging the middle lane, I can't see how it will mean anything. What are the police actually supposed to do somebody for? I'd like to think that I never do it, but if I was pulled up for it, I'd say "What are you actually prosecuting me for, the "style" of my driving?"
how about failing to drive on the correct side of the road? It's a pretty basic rule of using the road tbh.

I doubt this will do any good when most if the plod cars I see deserve all these fines and none of them can switch on their headlights in the rain either.


Dizeee

18,166 posts

205 months

Friday 16th August 2013
quotequote all
Randy Winkman said:
And with regard to hogging the middle lane, I can't see how it will mean anything. What are the police actually supposed to do somebody for? I'd like to think that I never do it, but if I was pulled up for it, I'd say "What are you actually prosecuting me for, the "style" of my driving?"
Probably for driving in the incorrect lane whilst not overtaking anything, therbu causing inconsideration to others who have to move from lane 1 all the way to 3 in order to get past you, as well as encouraging undertaking by virtue of your road position. Not to mention the lack of attention and consideration you would have had to have displayed by failing to move over when another vehicle came up behind you, especially a police vehicle on top of that!

toerag

748 posts

131 months

Friday 16th August 2013
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Wozy68 said:
NorfolkInClue1 said:
Bit more info in this piece too. Interesting list of what he police are likely to be looking at.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23713732
Blimey. Changing lanes at a roundabout? With the silly road markings being used today, if you don't know the area you're now stuffed if they're watching.
agree, what if your joining a duel carrageway from a roundabout and the traffic is backedup in your lane? Just sit on the roundabout I guess and block the other traffic rather than get off the roundabout and try and filter back into your lane.

FiF

43,960 posts

250 months

Friday 16th August 2013
quotequote all
Randy Winkman said:
And with regard to hogging the middle lane, I can't see how it will mean anything. What are the police actually supposed to do somebody for? I'd like to think that I never do it, but if I was pulled up for it, I'd say "What are you actually prosecuting me for, the "style" of my driving?"
No S59 is for that.

Having lit touch paper runs and hides.

Anyway thought the Fed had said it was all unenforceable due to no boots on the street following cuts.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 16th August 2013
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Snowboy said:
My guess is that the police will use this as a way of warning motorists.
Pulling over an mlm, threatening them with the fine, then letting them off if they promise to stop doing it.
Which is all well and good until some tv watching, paper reading, pasta cooking, tailgating truckie doesn't clear them off the hard shoulder.

If someones good/daft enough to be a MLM I'm sure they'll make an excellent job of rejoining the carriageway from a standing start at 90% in front of a chemical or petrol tanker with the resultant chaos in their mirror rolleyes

agtlaw

6,680 posts

205 months

Friday 16th August 2013
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Dizeee said:
Probably for driving in the incorrect lane whilst not overtaking anything, thereby causing inconsideration to others
Driving without reasonable consideration.

CPS say this:


Driving without reasonable consideration

The offence of driving without reasonable consideration under section 3 of the RTA 1988 is committed only when other persons are inconvenienced by the manner of the defendants driving, see section 3ZA(4) RTA 1988.

The maximum penalty is a level 5 fine. The court must also either endorse the drivers licence with between 3 and 9 penalty points (unless there are "special reasons" not to do so), or impose disqualification for a fixed period and/or until a driving test has been passed. The penalty is the same as for driving without due care and attention.

A driving without due consideration charge is more appropriate where the inconvenience is aimed at and suffered by other road users.

Note the essential difference between the two offences under section 3 of the RTA 1988 is that in cases of careless driving the prosecution need not show that any other person was inconvenienced. In cases of inconsiderate driving, there must be evidence that some other user of the road or public place was actually inconvenienced; Dilks v Bowman-Shaw [1981] RTR 4 DC

Charging Practice

This offence is appropriate when the driving amounts to a clear act of incompetence, selfishness, impatience or aggressiveness in addition to some other inconvenience to road users. The following examples are typical of actions likely to be regarded as inconsiderate driving:

flashing of lights to force other drivers in front to give way;
misuse of any lane (including cycling lanes) to avoid queuing or gain some other advantage over other drivers;
unnecessarily remaining in an overtaking lane;
unnecessarily slow driving or braking without good cause;
driving with un-dipped headlights which dazzle oncoming drivers, cyclists or pedestrians;
driving through a puddle causing pedestrians to be splashed;
driving a bus in such a way as to alarm passengers.

Prosecutors must decide which version of the offence to charge as the section creates two separate offences and there is no alternative verdict provision in the magistrates/youth court: R v Surrey Justices, ex parte Witherick [1932] 1 K.B. 340.

madbadger

11,554 posts

243 months

Friday 16th August 2013
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valais said:
jogon said:
They should have just made 'undertaking' or passing on the leff acceptable.

In my experience its much more than 1/3 of drivers it's more like 3/4 who simply don't adhere to lane discipline.
Too dangerous to introduce.
Needs a £100 fine if you are undertaken.

Immediately would get all MLMs to drive on the left. Problem solved.

covboy

2,573 posts

173 months

Friday 16th August 2013
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madbadger said:
Needs a £100 fine if you are undertaken.

Immediately would get all MLMs to drive on the left. Problem solved.
Downside is MLM who suddenly realise what they are doing, and insist on pulling back into the inside lane while traffic is merging from slip roads.
Seen one or two near misses like this in the last couple of days.

jimmy the hat

429 posts

146 months

Friday 16th August 2013
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covboy said:
Downside is MLM who suddenly realise what they are doing, and insist on pulling back into the inside lane while traffic is merging from slip roads.
Seen one or two near misses like this in the last couple of days.
Had it happen to me just the other day. The cretin who did it was completely oblivious as to where i'd come from as I backed off, went round the back of him and accelerated past as he continued to bimble along at 50mph (had to back off, and subsequently accelerate, quite a bit as it turned out).

Back O/T: This has been reported as relating to those who hog the middle-lane, which will do nothing to ease congestion on two-lane duals where the MLMs will continue, obliviously, about their business of holding everyone else up. Due to there being no "middle-lane" they'll be doing no "wrong" and there isn't the luxury of an extra lane to get round them. Utterly pointless.

I don't disbelieve the possibility that the practical means of policing this don't exist but, as many have said, even that's almost irrelevant as there's next to nobody there to do it. Besides which, the last time I saw a copper on a two-lane dual he drove the entire 8 miles in the outside lane. (Prepare for OB flame, he was probably doing so for some completely valid reason rolleyes )

Did someone say "headline politics"?

Cheers, Jim

3Dee

3,206 posts

220 months

Friday 16th August 2013
quotequote all
Having driven like many others here for over 45 years, the motorway has always posed several different dilemmas (to A or B roads)for the driver. ML hogging has become epidemic and 'normal practise' for many, and I can see why!

If you have moved to the middle lane and generally you are travelling at a faster pace than the left lane, when the left is clear and you have moved to the left lane, it is usual when approaching slower traffic, to look, indicate, and move to the centre - all well and good when traffic is light. BUT, when in heavier traffic, and I have experienced this on numerous times, there is a real chance that you get trapped in the left lane due to faster traffic coming on in the middle lane who are hell-bent on not letting you out. And so, the temptation is to stay in the middle lane.

Yes it is wrong, and yes if everyone was courteous on the road, that shouldn't happen, but it does all too frequently.

The unfortunate part of all this is, and it is recognised as a 'condition' of the motorist, is that a predominant majority of drivers, who are cocooned in our metal shells propelled by the magic of the combustion engine, become more aggressive in varying degrees, feel somewhat invulnerable, and claim the road in front as our own. This is a malaise that no-one has yet found a proper solution for.
Valium anyone? ooops! not a good idea!

richardrsc

328 posts

134 months

Friday 16th August 2013
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CallorFold said:
In theory, if people aren't lane hogging and are using the correct lane, that should more or less eliminate the majority of tailgating too smile
Not really. I tend to 'make progress' on the motorway, but always leave a fair amount of room for the car in front.

that doesn't seem to stop white vans practically tailgating right up my arse which always annoys the hell out of me, because I know for a fact than I can stop a hell of a lot quicker than they can if the need arises.

Apache

39,731 posts

283 months

Friday 16th August 2013
quotequote all
I hope this doesn't make too much difference to the behaviour of the majority of em.....I find I can make good progress undertaking them all in the slow lane on the M25

agtlaw

6,680 posts

205 months

Friday 16th August 2013
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Apache said:
I hope this doesn't make too much difference to the behaviour of the majority of em.....I find I can make good progress undertaking them all in the slow lane on the M25
"Slow lane" ?

MikeGTi

2,497 posts

200 months

Friday 16th August 2013
quotequote all
Just travelled from York to Manchester via A64, M62 and M60. You'll all be pleased to hear that there has been a total change of driver and I didn't see anybody hogging the middle lane.




...not.

Furry Exocet

3,011 posts

180 months

Friday 16th August 2013
quotequote all
Well it went live for us at midnight, we have the tickets (I've not seen any though) and our mdt's have been updated and the new ticket offences are there and ready to be issued.
Not had any input on it yet, but can't see any issue with it myself.

Apache

39,731 posts

283 months

Friday 16th August 2013
quotequote all
agtlaw said:
Apache said:
I hope this doesn't make too much difference to the behaviour of the majority of em.....I find I can make good progress undertaking them all in the slow lane on the M25
"Slow lane" ?
ok, inside lane

Dizeee

18,166 posts

205 months

Friday 16th August 2013
quotequote all
Furry Exocet said:
Well it went live for us at midnight, we have the tickets (I've not seen any though) and our mdt's have been updated and the new ticket offences are there and ready to be issued.
Not had any input on it yet, but can't see any issue with it myself.
Just found out, met practice as of today is to scribble out the fine amount on an old ticket and write the new amount next to it...

jimmy the hat

429 posts

146 months

Friday 16th August 2013
quotequote all
Apache said:
ok, inside lane
biggrin

You do have a point though. It has got to the point now where, often, the fastest lane is the inside. Mind you, it's also got to the point that I find myself thanking people for not pulling out in front of me. Which is more than a little sad.

Cheers, Jim

Red Devil

13,055 posts

207 months

Friday 16th August 2013
quotequote all
At what point does 'too close to the vehicle in front' become 'not too close to the vehicle in front'? Without any published defined parameters it becomes wholly subjective and open to the mindset of individual officers. What guidance will they be given?

In Germany the rules are quite clear.


FiF

43,960 posts

250 months

Friday 16th August 2013
quotequote all
Some there I didn't know.

Overtaking too slowly with respect to slower vehicle 80 euro 1 point.

Comments from truckers?