How roadworthy does a brit car have to be in Germany?

[XJ Flyer]

BertBert said:

XJ Flyer said:

If that was right then no one could use a uk reg car for touring in North America.

Not sure I get your logic. If (as we have decided) a car has to conform to local legisaltion, then the same applies to the US. If the US legislation says generically (for example) that brit cars are ok or that cars have to conform to their home laws, then no problem, but the brit car would then be conforming to US laws. Just the same as Germany.
BErt

It seems obvious that the convention which allows the use of foreign registered vehicles on temporary entry in foreign countries actually means that a UK registered car doesn't need to satisfy local German ( or US ) MOT requirements.Such a requirement would mean that all vehicles used for temporary entry like touring would be subject to 'all' the same regs as permanent export and local registration.In which case all the implications of that would apply and the idea of temporary entry use would be unviable.Certainly in the case of UK spec cars being used in America in many cases considering the differences between UK and US export spec requirements for the same vehicles which have applied overt the years.The fact is there have been plenty of UK registered cars which have been used for temporary entry for touring in the states which would fail the requirements related to DOT compliance if they were being permanently exported there.I think the Germans are way out of order 'if' they are actually found to be trying to enforce local MOT/TUV requirements on UK reg cars.

[anonymous-user]

XJ Flyer said:

BertBert said:

XJ Flyer said:

If that was right then no one could use a uk reg car for touring in North America.

Not sure I get your logic. If (as we have decided) a car has to conform to local legisaltion, then the same applies to the US. If the US legislation says generically (for example) that brit cars are ok or that cars have to conform to their home laws, then no problem, but the brit car would then be conforming to US laws. Just the same as Germany.
BErt

It seems obvious that the convention which allows the use of foreign registered vehicles on temporary entry in foreign countries actually means that a UK registered car doesn't need to satisfy local German ( or US ) MOT requirements.Such a requirement would mean that all vehicles used for temporary entry like touring would be subject to 'all' the same regs as permanent export and local registration.In which case all the implications of that would apply and the idea of temporary entry use would be unviable.Certainly in the case of UK spec cars being used in America in many cases considering the differences between UK and US export spec requirements for the same vehicles which have applied overt the years.The fact is there have been plenty of UK registered cars which have been used for temporary entry for touring in the states which would fail the requirements related to DOT compliance if they were being permanently exported there.I think the Germans are way out of order 'if' they are actually found to be trying to enforce local MOT/TUV requirements on UK reg cars.

It was a stty old Ford Galaxy dressed up as a pantomime tank.
I think everyone else is safe.

[BertBert]

Crossflow Kid said:

It was a stty old Ford Galaxy dressed up as a pantomime tank.
I think everyone else is safe.

Thanks. I thought I'd start a thread (academic or not) where we could actually get to how the laws work (this being SP&L). If you'd like to help on that subject please do...
Bert

[anonymous-user]

BertBert said:

Crossflow Kid said:

It was a stty old Ford Galaxy dressed up as a pantomime tank.
I think everyone else is safe.

Thanks. I thought I'd start a thread (academic or not) where we could actually get to how the laws work (this being SP&L). If you'd like to help on that subject please do...
Bert

Can't believe the question's even being asked.......

[BertBert]

Crossflow Kid said:

Can't believe the question's even being asked.......

Cool. As we don't agree on very much, I can't say I'm that surprised. I expect we both feature in each other's "he's a bit of a knob" list.

[rewc]

Having toured Europe for the last month or so and seen the ancient converted motorhomes that are German registered I find it hard to accept that German rules are that tight.

[Roo]

Pontoneer said:

pingu393 said:

I suspect that most UK cars will be illegal as the single rear foglight will be on the wrong side.

It goes with the side the steering wheel is on : my LHD Mercedes is fine here with its fog lamp on the left .

Link to legislation for that?

[agtlaw]

XJ Flyer said:

.I think the Germans are way out of order 'if' they are actually found to be trying to enforce local MOT/TUV requirements on UK reg cars.

You can think what you like but in the real world I've personally witnessed cars at Nürburging seized by the Germans for having plastic windows, large rear wings, bonnet pins, etc, etc. Legal in the UK does not mean legal in Germany and perhaps a bit obvious here but an MOT does not mean roadworthy for 12 months. German police also have absolutely no sense of humour about chav plates using the German font.

Edited by agtlaw on Tuesday 17th September 23:58

[Roo]

It's similar to a lot of the foreign lorries that get stopped round here.

It might be legal in country of registration but if it's deemed to be dangerous by UK standards it will get pulled off the roads.

[Pontoneer]

XJ Flyer said:

The question in this case being the one of the difference between the UK MOT requirements and standards as opposed to the German ones and what (seems like) a possible policy in Germany of arbitrarily subjecting UK registered cars to the full German MOT depending on how the German law feel at the time which doesn't seem consistent with that accepted protocol described above.Which would then raise the issue of classics for example which under German regs can't be substantially modified from standard and need to be retro fitted with catalytic converters for example.Whereas a UK reg classic car can pass a UK MOT even after being subject to large scale modifications with no need for catalytic converters.

Therefore the question,at least in my case,is could it be even remotely possible that a UK reg car could be declared illegal and unroadworthy in Germany because it doesn't meet German MOT standards in regards to modifications carried out and not being retro fitted with catylytic converters as would apply in Germany to a German registered car.That question is a totally different issue and would have nothing to do with the vehicle being dangerously unroadworthy.

I think Germany also has exemptions for Classic cars which qualify for an H ( historic ) registration when they reach the age of 30 . There are issues with non cat cars not being permitted in some LEZ's which effectively bans them from certain cities , but again there are some exemptions for historic vehicles because of their low numbers , and visitors with such cars can apply for plakettes before travelling .

There are also approved modifications for certain cars : I know , for example , that as soon as LEZ's were first mooted , Mercedes-Benz brought out catalytic converter kits for the Pagoda SL series , with kits for other classic models to follow .

I would very much doubt that a reasonably well maintained classic would run into trouble ; more likely to fall foul would be drivers of scruffy looking 'bangers' with , for example , tyres that barely scrape through a UK MOT but are well under the limit in Germany ( and rightly so if aquaplaning is to be avoided at the higher speeds permitted on some parts of the Autobahn network ) .

[Pontoneer]

Roo said:

Pontoneer said:

pingu393 said:

I suspect that most UK cars will be illegal as the single rear foglight will be on the wrong side.

It goes with the side the steering wheel is on : my LHD Mercedes is fine here with its fog lamp on the left .

Link to legislation for that?

They pass their MOT quite happily .

[JMGS4]

The german police are rightly clamping down on unsafe foreign vehicles here. The horrors one sees here with Polish, Rumanian, Bulgarian, Croatian, Latvian etc cars with bad brakes, holes in the wings large enough to put your hand through, and crash damage only taped up, are what they're after.

They especially stop suspect foreign trucks and I've seen a lot of impounded trucks at the Swiss Border which are only good for scrap, missing wheels on duals, collapsed suspensions, and brakes on trailers which haven't worked since the Deluge!!!

Obviously the Prank Tank was unsafe (bad brakes, holes on the chassis and bodywork) so it'll rightly get hauled off the road. They will not stop a foreign modified car unless they consider it unsafe. Also it's illegal to have a "war vehicle" in Germany.....imitation gun = war vehicle.
AND don't forget an MOT is only a statement that it was roadworthy at the time it passed,. It does NOT mean that it's roadworthy for a year after the test!!!

[anonymous-user]

BertBert said:

Crossflow Kid said:

Can't believe the question's even being asked.......

Cool. As we don't agree on very much, I can't say I'm that surprised. I expect we both feature in each other's "he's a bit of a knob" list.

I keep an open mind on these things, but ironically, your rollercoaster assumption swayed it for me.

[bad company]

I think you need winter tyres in Germany, not sure what time of year you need to fit them tho?

[agtlaw]

Pontoneer said:

, tyres that barely scrape through a UK MOT but are well under the limit in Germany ( and rightly so if aquaplaning is to be avoided at the higher speeds permitted on some parts of the Autobahn network ) .

1.6mm in UK. 1.6mm in Germany.

[Pontoneer]

agtlaw said:

1.6mm in UK. 1.6mm in Germany.

Don't know the German regs , but I was under the impression their minimum was greater than ours - hence the abundance of part worn tyres imported from the continent - because they have to change sooner than we do ?

[Hugo a Gogo]

bad company said:

I think you need winter tyres in Germany, not sure what time of year you need to fit them tho?

you don't 'need' them, but if you crash or cause a traffic jam in snow and you don't have winter tyres, then you can be fined

[bad company]

Hugo a Gogo said:

you don't 'need' them, but if you crash or cause a traffic jam in snow and you don't have winter tyres, then you can be fined

Thanks for that. Do the tyres have to be a contributory factor to the crash?

[Pontoneer]

It may be Austria rather than Germany , but I'm fairly sure there are certain roads where you are not permitted to go at certain times of the year without winter tyres .

[JMGS4]

Pontoneer said:

It may be Austria rather than Germany , but I'm fairly sure there are certain roads where you are not permitted to go at certain times of the year without winter tyres .

Germany and Austria insist in winter tyres on ice, snow, slush ANYWHERE. Some roads you must have wimtertyres as soon as the signs are up for them no matter what the surface conditions.
AUSTRIA, you MUST have a MINIMUM of 4mm tread on wintertyres!