How roadworthy does a brit car have to be in Germany?

[Hugo a Gogo]

bad company said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

you don't 'need' them, but if you crash or cause a traffic jam in snow and you don't have winter tyres, then you can be fined

Thanks for that. Do the tyres have to be a contributory factor to the crash?

I suppose it's down to the Polizei's discretion ultimately

[Rude-boy]

N Dentressangle said:

Germans have as much sense of humour as most other people, but I have never found German police (or French ones either, for that matter) to be especially 'game for a laugh'.

99% of the time you are bang on but never, ever, underestimate the ice braking potential of a solo V8 TVR, sheepish grin and 30+ couple.

(This may not be the case for two weeks of the year either side of the second weekend in June...)

[hdrflow]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_...

Or the Geneva one depending if the country has ratified it or not (I suppose) and if resident then local laws apply. If they want to inspect the vehicle then they need to apply the standard of the country of origin or I'd expect it to be the case but then I don't know much

[anonymous-user]

Rude-boy said:

never, ever, underestimate the ice braking potential of a solo V8 TVR

Is that something to do with the winter tyres bit then?

[catso]

Pontoneer said:

It may be Austria rather than Germany , but I'm fairly sure there are certain roads where you are not permitted to go at certain times of the year without winter tyres .

The same applies in Italy, you need to have winter tyres or be carrying snow chains on certain roads between certain dates.

Rarely enforced but on those occasions, it is normally done right by an establishment that sells said snow chains at inflated prices to motorists being forced to buy them by the Police...

[Rude-boy]

[longblackcoat]

catso said:

Pontoneer said:

It may be Austria rather than Germany , but I'm fairly sure there are certain roads where you are not permitted to go at certain times of the year without winter tyres .

The same applies in Italy, you need to have winter tyres or be carrying snow chains on certain roads between certain dates.

Rarely enforced but on those occasions, it is normally done right by an establishment that sells said snow chains at inflated prices to motorists being forced to buy them by the Police...

In my little bit of the French Alps, the police will insist that you're at least carrying chains, even if you're in a 4x4 with snow tyres fitted. Makes sense - even in my Disco with really good winter tyres I could barely make it down the hill out of Les Gets at times last winter. Obviously they're not out checking all the cars all the time, but if you're pulled over for anything it's one of the first things they look for.

Typically there's a 'aire de chainage' where they pull you over and make you fit your chains, or turn you round.

[Roo]

Pontoneer said:

Roo said:

Pontoneer said:

pingu393 said:

I suspect that most UK cars will be illegal as the single rear foglight will be on the wrong side.

It goes with the side the steering wheel is on : my LHD Mercedes is fine here with its fog lamp on the left .

Link to legislation for that?

They pass their MOT quite happily .

They may well do, but that wasn't what I asked.

[Pontoneer]

Roo said:

They may well do, but that wasn't what I asked.

In principle , everything is legal , unless something specifically makes it illegal .

Since my LHD car does not need to have any fog lamps , it matters not where the fitted one is .

On a lot of imported cars , the fog lamps are built into the clusters with fog lamp on one side and reversing lamp in the corresponding place on the other side , so it is impossible to reverse them anyway .

There is no requirement to modify a car which was legal at the time it was built to comply with later changes in legislation .

[Rude-boy]

Pontoneer said:

There is no requirement to modify a car which was legal at the time it was built to comply with later changes in legislation .

Indeed.

Had this issue with a non conforming number plate on a car which was built in 1996 when you could have your number plates back lit.

For ease of life we have to pop the ‘MOT’ plates on the car for a few days of the year but for the rest of it, as I said to the nice Trafpol on the A12 in June, “I’d rather be explaining to you why the font isn’t quite in conformity with the regulations than in 12 hours time be explaining why you can’t see my number plate...” Ended up with one very puzzled Trafpol who was nice enough to send us on our way without any additional paperwork.

[XJ Flyer]

Pontoneer said:

XJ Flyer said:

The question in this case being the one of the difference between the UK MOT requirements and standards as opposed to the German ones and what (seems like) a possible policy in Germany of arbitrarily subjecting UK registered cars to the full German MOT depending on how the German law feel at the time which doesn't seem consistent with that accepted protocol described above.Which would then raise the issue of classics for example which under German regs can't be substantially modified from standard and need to be retro fitted with catalytic converters for example.Whereas a UK reg classic car can pass a UK MOT even after being subject to large scale modifications with no need for catalytic converters.

Therefore the question,at least in my case,is could it be even remotely possible that a UK reg car could be declared illegal and unroadworthy in Germany because it doesn't meet German MOT standards in regards to modifications carried out and not being retro fitted with catylytic converters as would apply in Germany to a German registered car.That question is a totally different issue and would have nothing to do with the vehicle being dangerously unroadworthy.

I think Germany also has exemptions for Classic cars which qualify for an H ( historic ) registration when they reach the age of 30 .

There are also approved modifications for certain cars : I know , for example , that as soon as LEZ's were first mooted , Mercedes-Benz brought out catalytic converter kits for the Pagoda SL series , with kits for other classic models to follow .

I would very much doubt that a reasonably well maintained classic would run into trouble ; more likely to fall foul would be drivers of scruffy looking 'bangers' with , for example , tyres that barely scrape through a UK MOT but are well under the limit in Germany ( and rightly so if aquaplaning is to be avoided at the higher speeds permitted on some parts of the Autobahn network ) .

It's that contradiction between German registered cars being subject to 'approved' modification rules and the arguable issues concerning retro fit catylytic converters,as opposed to the UK regs,which I'm referring to.It seems obvious that a well modified older car that complies with uk regs probably won't fit the description of 'approved' German modifications and certainly doesn't need retro fit catylitic converters fitted.IE in my case the simple fact that an old 1984 Jaguar XJ saloon is running at up to 165 mph + on their autobahns with straight through exhausts with a noise to match might raise some obvious questions from the Polizei as to how it's able to do it and the obvious modifications involved.My worry is what could potentially happen next in that case.It's got nothing to do with the totally different issue of vehicles being used in a dangerous condition such as dodgy tyres etc.

[fluffnik]

Crossflow Kid said:

It was a stty old Ford Galaxy dressed up as a pantomime tank.
I think everyone else is safe.

Specifically it was a stty old Ford Galaxy with a badly corroded wishbone and a suboptimal braking system...

[fluffnik]

Crossflow Kid said:

It was a stty old Ford Galaxy dressed up as a pantomime tank.
I think everyone else is safe.

Specifically it was a stty old Ford Galaxy with a badly corroded wishbone and a suboptimal braking system...

[Pete Eroleum]

Hey all. Been mostly lurking for a while, but this thread has piqued my curiosity.

How does this retro-fit of cats work then? I can see it being possible on early fuel-injected cars, but
with anything running carbs it would not be possible to get the required 14.7:1 Air/Fuel ratio required
for the cat to function.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Thanks

[XJ Flyer]

Pete Eroleum said:

Hey all. Been mostly lurking for a while, but this thread has piqued my curiosity.

How does this retro-fit of cats work then? I can see it being possible on early fuel-injected cars, but
with anything running carbs it would not be possible to get the required 14.7:1 Air/Fuel ratio required
for the cat to function.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Thanks

Cats have been a mandatory fitment on all US registered cars registered since 1975 and many of those were running on carbs well into and after that period seemingly using air injection to the Cat to maintain the correct ratio.

www.freeengineinfo.com/catalitic-converter.htm

[mph1977]

The Highway Man said:

When I was posted in Germany, I had to ensure all vehicle lighting was changed to comply with local rules and regs. The German TUV test (our MOT) was a lot stricter than ours at the time. However that was 20 years ago and knowing what sticklers the Germans are for the environment, I would imagine it is even stricter nowadays.

'BFGing' a car is more to do with regulation and legislation coverign the presence of BFG ... also the fact that for the duration of your posting you would effectively be permanently resident for the duration of the posting ...

[Pete Eroleum]

Thanks for the link, but as far as I can tell that just tells me what a cat is. I do already know
that though.

Getting an air pump to function accurately enough to exactly compensate for the vagaries of a carb's mixture
sounds pretty difficult to me.

Are you sure you're not confusing that with the mechanically-driven air-pumps that were fitted to directly
mix fresh air with exhaust gasses to satisfy emission laws, resulting in an artificially weakened mixture?

If so, this is not metered air and would in no way satisfy requirements for a cat.

I removed one of these pumps from my car and threw it away, as it was heavy and not needed.

[XJ Flyer]

Pete Eroleum said:

Thanks for the link, but as far as I can tell that just tells me what a cat is. I do already know
that though.

Getting an air pump to function accurately enough to exactly compensate for the vagaries of a carb's mixture
sounds pretty difficult to me.

Are you sure you're not confusing that with the mechanically-driven air-pumps that were fitted to directly
mix fresh air with exhaust gasses to satisfy emission laws, resulting in an artificially weakened mixture?

If so, this is not metered air and would in no way satisfy requirements for a cat.

I removed one of these pumps from my car and threw it away, as it was heavy and not needed.

According to the link it seems quite clear in confirming the question of Cats being introduced and used together with carb fed engines in the US and using air injection into the exhaust as a way to maintain the type of exhaust gas mixture required for them to survive.It might also then be relevant to the topic that over the years plenty of US car enthusiasts have deleted the things regardless of the actual law while of course a post 1975 Brit registered car can be legally used in the States on temporary entry for touring without needing to be fitted with any Cat/s or being subject to US DOT type approval or MOT requirements which a permanent import would be.The question is does that same status apply to a UK registered car in the case of it being used on temporary entry in Germany ?.

[Pete Eroleum]

XJ Flyer said:

According to the link it seems quite clear in confirming the question of Cats being introduced and used together with carb fed engines in the US and using air injection into the exhaust as a way to maintain the type of exhaust gas mixture required for them to survive.

Seems confusing to me.

The article said:

At one time they had an air tube running to them, because the have to stay close to a correct air to fuel ratio. They would regulate air to control the reaction so that the catalyst would not overheat and burn up.

This appears contradictory, air hose fitted because cats are mixture-fussy, but is used for cooling?
Sounds, er, like a bit of a token gesture back then. But even if it wasn't, the thought all that gubbins retro-fitted to a nice classic makes me wince.

XJ Flyer said:

The question is does that same status apply to a UK registered car in the case of it being used on temporary entry in Germany ?.

Indeed. My car may not be the most valuable classic out there by a long way. But I like it and wouldn't want it squished.

[The Highway Man]

mph1977 said:

'BFGing' a car is more to do with regulation and legislation coverign the presence of BFG ... also the fact that for the duration of your posting you would effectively be permanently resident for the duration of the posting ...

BFG confused the hell out of some people. A British registered vehicle on British plates, insured with German insurance, running with continental lighting. The driver whilst being a British citizen, was living in Germany with British Driving licence and a German permit. I lost count of the amount of times British police thought my car was a ringer as it had one registration number etched on the windows and a different one on the plates! It was soon explained with a flash of my RMP warrant card.