How roadworthy does a brit car have to be in Germany?

[BertBert]

Away from the brilliant tank thread...

What is the law on roadworthy-ness? In britland I assume it's con and use for brit cars? As an aside, how is that tested if plod asserts a car is not roadworthy?

Then assuming a car is roadworthy according to brit law, is that sufficient in Germany? Or does it need to comply with the German equivalent of con & use? And then similar for all the other countries in Europe? And then further afield?

Bert

[agtlaw]

BertBert said:

does it need to comply with the German equivalent of con & use?

Yes.

[Pontoneer]

BertBert said:

Away from the brilliant tank thread...

What is the law on roadworthy-ness? In britland I assume it's con and use for brit cars? As an aside, how is that tested if plod asserts a car is not roadworthy?

Then assuming a car is roadworthy according to brit law, is that sufficient in Germany? Or does it need to comply with the German equivalent of con & use? And then similar for all the other countries in Europe? And then further afield?

Bert

Generally , if a car is legal in its homeland , it is accepted when visiting abroad - however , AIUI , this is a matter of goodwill and the letter of the law in the host country can still be applied if dangerous defects come to light .

[pingu393]

agtlaw said:

BertBert said:

does it need to comply with the German equivalent of con & use?

Yes.

I suspect that most UK cars will be illegal as the single rear foglight will be on the wrong side.

[The Highway Man]

When I was posted in Germany, I had to ensure all vehicle lighting was changed to comply with local rules and regs. The German TUV test (our MOT) was a lot stricter than ours at the time. However that was 20 years ago and knowing what sticklers the Germans are for the environment, I would imagine it is even stricter nowadays.

[thatsprettyshady]

No gun turrets...

[BertBert]

thatsprettyshady said:

No gun turrets...

noooo, stop. This is an anti-tank thread!

[N Dentressangle]

Pontoneer said:

BertBert said:

Away from the brilliant tank thread...

What is the law on roadworthy-ness? In britland I assume it's con and use for brit cars? As an aside, how is that tested if plod asserts a car is not roadworthy?

Then assuming a car is roadworthy according to brit law, is that sufficient in Germany? Or does it need to comply with the German equivalent of con & use? And then similar for all the other countries in Europe? And then further afield?

Bert

Generally , if a car is legal in its homeland , it is accepted when visiting abroad - however , AIUI , this is a matter of goodwill and the letter of the law in the host country can still be applied if dangerous defects come to light .

Anything you fit to a German car has to have TUV approval for fitment to that car.

So, no aftermarket rims unless they've been through TUV approval for that car, no loud exhaust, and definitely no plywood gun turret.

I would say that's the main area of difference between UK C&U regs and Germany. As you say, I don't think German cops would generally be interested in a properly and safely modified UK car being driven by someone on holiday, but as the daft 'tank' laddies found, it's not wise to try them out.

Germans have as much sense of humour as most other people, but I have never found German police (or French ones either, for that matter) to be especially 'game for a laugh'.

[Pontoneer]

pingu393 said:

I suspect that most UK cars will be illegal as the single rear foglight will be on the wrong side.

It goes with the side the steering wheel is on : my LHD Mercedes is fine here with its fog lamp on the left , although the car is of an age that it need not have one at all . I have taken RHD cars to Germany with a single right fog lamp and driven there in foggy conditions without its use attracting any attention .

As for regulations differing from one country to another , there is generally a relaxation for visiting vehicles which meet the requirements of their home country , but if something obviously and blatantly illegal stands out then what is basically goodwill can be rescinded .

[Pontoneer]

The Highway Man said:

When I was posted in Germany, I had to ensure all vehicle lighting was changed to comply with local rules and regs. The German TUV test (our MOT) was a lot stricter than ours at the time. However that was 20 years ago and knowing what sticklers the Germans are for the environment, I would imagine it is even stricter nowadays.

Indeed , I used to go over to Osnabruck to visit my sister when she was living there , but they tended to buy their cars there as there were financial advantages .

It was certainly the case that cars 'resident' there had to meet German regs , but it was a different matter if I took mine over for a couple of weeks holiday .

[anonymous-user]

Pontoneer said:

It goes with the side the steering wheel is on

What about tanks, with a central driving position?

[BertBert]

I understand there seems to be leeway, but it's a fairly big thing that's not commonly known (I'd never thought about it) that your car needs to comply with local regs. It's pretty obvious it should be so, but just not thought about when travelling abroad.
Bert

[XJ Flyer]

Pontoneer said:

BertBert said:

Away from the brilliant tank thread...

What is the law on roadworthy-ness? In britland I assume it's con and use for brit cars? As an aside, how is that tested if plod asserts a car is not roadworthy?

Then assuming a car is roadworthy according to brit law, is that sufficient in Germany? Or does it need to comply with the German equivalent of con & use? And then similar for all the other countries in Europe? And then further afield?

Bert

Generally , if a car is legal in its homeland , it is accepted when visiting abroad - however , AIUI , this is a matter of goodwill and the letter of the law in the host country can still be applied if dangerous defects come to light .

The question in this case being the one of the difference between the UK MOT requirements and standards as opposed to the German ones and what (seems like) a possible policy in Germany of arbitrarily subjecting UK registered cars to the full German MOT depending on how the German law feel at the time which doesn't seem consistent with that accepted protocol described above.Which would then raise the issue of classics for example which under German regs can't be substantially modified from standard and need to be retro fitted with catalytic converters for example.Whereas a UK reg classic car can pass a UK MOT even after being subject to large scale modifications with no need for catalytic converters.

Therefore the question,at least in my case,is could it be even remotely possible that a UK reg car could be declared illegal and unroadworthy in Germany because it doesn't meet German MOT standards in regards to modifications carried out and not being retro fitted with catylytic converters as would apply in Germany to a German registered car.That question is a totally different issue and would have nothing to do with the vehicle being dangerously unroadworthy.

[pingu393]

BertBert said:

I understand there seems to be leeway, but it's a fairly big thing that's not commonly known (I'd never thought about it) that your car needs to comply with local regs. It's pretty obvious it should be so, but just not thought about when travelling abroad.
Bert

It's probably got a lot to do with the loss of tourism money that a country would suffer if they acted like dicks.

[anonymous-user]

I'm guessing that, as suggested elsewhere, Der Galaxie Panzer was a death trap regardless of who was examining it and under which country's regs it was checked and that's why it got cubed.
N Dentressangle sums it up pretty well in that as long as the spirit of the local law is adhered to the average Brit car won't have an issue.

[BertBert]

XJ Flyer said:

Therefore the question,at least in my case,is could it be even remotely possible that a UK reg car could be declared illegal and unroadworthy in Germany because it doesn't meet German MOT standards in regards to modifications carried out and not being retro fitted with catylytic converters as would apply in Germany to a German registered car.That question is a totally different issue and would have nothing to do with the vehicle being dangerously unroadworthy.

Yes indeed, my 89 911 hotrod has hardly anything standard on it, so I have no idea whether it would even be close to legal in Germany. And it's very likely to go there.
Bert

[Hugo a Gogo]

N Dentressangle said:

So, no aftermarket rims unless they've been through TUV approval for that car, no loud exhaust, and definitely no plywood gun turret.

not quite true

the wheels or exhaust or whatever has to have an 'ABE' (Allgemeine Betriebserlaubnis) ie it's been tested by the TÜV - any part that's sold officially in Germany had this
then for a German reg'd car, you have to take the ABE cert along when you get your HU (test) done and keep it with the other vehicle papers

the test centre will check that the wheel physically fits, doesn't rub etc, or that any other part is fitted correctly and safely

my old 924 had the wheels, exhaust and suspension modified, and all legally registered

[XJ Flyer]

BertBert said:

I understand there seems to be leeway, but it's a fairly big thing that's not commonly known (I'd never thought about it) that your car needs to comply with local regs. It's pretty obvious it should be so, but just not thought about when travelling abroad.
Bert

If that was right then no one could use a uk reg car for touring in North America.

[XJ Flyer]

BertBert said:

XJ Flyer said:

Therefore the question,at least in my case,is could it be even remotely possible that a UK reg car could be declared illegal and unroadworthy in Germany because it doesn't meet German MOT standards in regards to modifications carried out and not being retro fitted with catylytic converters as would apply in Germany to a German registered car.That question is a totally different issue and would have nothing to do with the vehicle being dangerously unroadworthy.

Yes indeed, my 89 911 hotrod has hardly anything standard on it, so I have no idea whether it would even be close to legal in Germany. And it's very likely to go there.
Bert

The whole issue really needs to be clarified because if it's not legal to use a UK registered vehicle in Germany that complies with UK regs then that wouldn't seem to be even remotely consistent with the idea of a foreign registered vehicle only needing to comply with the regs in it's place of registration when being used for temporary entry in a foreign country.

[BertBert]

XJ Flyer said:

If that was right then no one could use a uk reg car for touring in North America.

Not sure I get your logic. If (as we have decided) a car has to conform to local legisaltion, then the same applies to the US. If the US legislation says generically (for example) that brit cars are ok or that cars have to conform to their home laws, then no problem, but the brit car would then be conforming to US laws. Just the same as Germany.
BErt