Major car accident - what happens next?

[durbster]

I wouldn't mind getting some feedback on this situation.

The short version is that my brother was driving his wife and toddler home last month when a LR Discovery came over a hill on their side of the road and hit them head on, apparently having lost control.

My brother and his wife were killed but their three year old son survived. Those car seats are amazing. The emergency crews got him out of the car and straight to intensive care. His legs were smashed up, he was covered in cuts, he was without oxygen for a few minutes and he had a big smack on the head so it remains to be seen what long term effects there will be but he's making an astonishing recovery so far and looks set to be discharged within the next week or so. We're hopeful he'll make something close to a full recovery.

What I would like to know is how these things usually play out - what sort of things we should prepare for over the next few months (and years...?). We do have excellent legal support but they obviously have to watch what they tell us whereas you lot aren't involved so can be more honest

The main things I'm unsure of are:
- two post-mortems were carried out and an inquest has been opened and adjourned so does this mean a prosecution is likely?
- what sort of timeline should we expect if that happens?
- my brother's car insurance company haven't been brilliant so far so tips on how to deal with them would be most welcome.
- the solicitor mentioned a possible personal injury claim on behalf of the toddler but stressed it was not their area of expertise. My only exposure to that world is the awful "ambulance chasers" but this is obviously a bit more serious than a dubiously sore neck, so is this something we should look into?

[Fatrat]

durbster said:

I wouldn't mind getting some feedback on this situation.

The short version is that my brother was driving his wife and toddler home last month when a LR Discovery came over a hill on their side of the road and hit them head on, apparently having lost control.

My brother and his wife were killed but their three year old son survived. Those car seats are amazing. The emergency crews got him out of the car and straight to intensive care. His legs were smashed up, he was covered in cuts, he was without oxygen for a few minutes and he had a big smack on the head so it remains to be seen what long term effects there will be but he's making an astonishing recovery so far and looks set to be discharged within the next week or so. We're hopeful he'll make something close to a full recovery.

What I would like to know is how these things usually play out - what sort of things we should prepare for over the next few months (and years...?). We do have excellent legal support but they obviously have to watch what they tell us whereas you lot aren't involved so can be more honest

The main things I'm unsure of are:
- two post-mortems were carried out and an inquest has been opened and adjourned so does this mean a prosecution is likely?
- what sort of timeline should we expect if that happens?
- my brother's car insurance company haven't been brilliant so far so tips on how to deal with them would be most welcome.
- the solicitor mentioned a possible personal injury claim on behalf of the toddler but stressed it was not their area of expertise. My only exposure to that world is the awful "ambulance chasers" but this is obviously a bit more serious than a dubiously sore neck, so is this something we should look into?

Firstly I am very sorry to hear about your brother and his wife.

I don't know about the PM's but your brothers insurers should pay for the cost of his car (possibly slightly delayed by the overall circumstances) but the payment should not be delayed by any prosecution (or not).

Yes you should consult a specialist PI lawyer. The child is entitled to compensation under these dreadful circumstances and it can hardly be regarded as "ambulance chasing". Any settlement may take years as the full extent of any injuries are revealed and would take into account the extra cost whoever looks after the toddler incurs and also the reasonable money and support that the child could have expected from their parents.

It may well be a long haul but just put the child's interests first (as I am sure you will)

Good luck.

[Devil2575]

Can't offer any advice but good luck in getting it all sorted out. What a horrible situation.

[7db]

I'm very sorry to hear about this. Truly horrible.

Do you (the family) have a Family Liaison Officer from the Police? They will be able to keep you up to date with the progress of the investigation and whether there will be charges etc. The only one of these that I have been close enough to see the details on took exactly a year to secure the conviction (death by dangerous driving heavily denied; 7 1/2 year sentence).

Normally civil claims follow the prosecution as it makes the claim considerably easier if the Police have already proven responsibility. There will be plenty of excellent solicitors delighted to have a chat about the toddler's case (I assume with his appointed Guardian -- is this you?) and that decision should be taken carefully and soberly.

Edited by 7db on Wednesday 25th September 14:19

[agtlaw]

durbster said:

The main things I'm unsure of are:
- two post-mortems were carried out and an inquest has been opened and adjourned so does this mean a prosecution is likely?
- what sort of timeline should we expect if that happens?
- my brother's car insurance company haven't been brilliant so far so tips on how to deal with them would be most welcome.
- the solicitor mentioned a possible personal injury claim on behalf of the toddler

Firstly, very sorry to hear about this.

The inquest is completely unrelated to the issue of anyone being prosecuted.

A lawyer at the Crown Prosecution Service will decide if there will be criminal proceedings. The test is based on public interest grounds and whether there is a realistic prospect of a conviction. In these cases, the decision to prosecute (or not) is largely based on the police accident investigator's report.

If there is a criminal trial then it would be unusual for the coroner to hold a full inquest because the facts leading to the death would have been explored in the criminal proceedings. If there is a criminal trial then typically one year will pass before then. The most obvious potential criminal charges would be death by dangerous driving or otherwise death by careless driving.

If criminal proceedings are not brought then the police accident investigator may give evidence at the inquest or at least their report will be made available to the coroner. An inquest is usually held within one year of death (assuming no criminal case pending).

PI and family issues - probably best to get someone on that sooner rather than later.

Edited by agtlaw on Wednesday 25th September 23:39

[Anonamoose]

Firstly sorry for your loss.

I don't have a lot to add in terms of the legal side but just remember that if their child has any life changing injuries then any compensation needs to take into account how his needs will change as he gets older. There is no second chance with it so make sure it is right, decent disability equipment is not cheap and also factor in if his new guardian will still be able to work and take on his care.

Fingers crossed that he suffers no lasting damage but I can't see how anyone would think claiming compensation for this kind of accident is the same as the 'whip lash' lot.

[durbster]

Thanks for the comments. Forgot to add that my wife and I will be his guardians from now on. My wife is giving up her job to look after him full time so that's about 35% off our income although she may be entitled to adopters leave or something so we're looking into that. To put it in PH terms, I have officially cancelled my search for a Monaro.

If we were to pursue a PI claim after any potential court case, should we be doing something like getting a doctor to formally document his development do you think e.g. if he has learning problems or anything like that?

If the legal process takes a long time then it'll be more difficult to refer back to things that are happening now.

[Anonamoose]

I would also request a copy of his medical notes before the accident to prove his normal development until that point.

[Snowboy]

I have no idea about any of the questions you have asked.
But, I just feel compelled to offer condolence from me and my wife.

This forum is normally just silly arguing but something like this is very very real - and I'm not sure what to say, but wanted to just offer some words of support and kindness in what must be a terrible time.

[durbster]

Anonamoose said:

Fingers crossed that he suffers no lasting damage but I can't see how anyone would think claiming compensation for this kind of accident is the same as the 'whip lash' lot.

I should just clarify that point - what I meant was I don't know how you distinguish between the types of companies who are primarily going for the ambulance chasing cases and those who deal with the more legitimate side of things (if indeed there is a distinction).

Perhaps this is unfair but I worry I'll be sitting in a reception next to Barry, who is suing Adidas because he put his shoes on the wrong feet and fell over.

[Fatrat]

durbster said:

Thanks for the comments. Forgot to add that my wife and I will be his guardians from now on. My wife is giving up her job to look after him full time so that's about 35% off our income although she may be entitled to adopters leave or something so we're looking into that. To put it in PH terms, I have officially cancelled my search for a Monaro.

If we were to pursue a PI claim after any potential court case, should we be doing something like getting a doctor to formally document his development do you think e.g. if he has learning problems or anything like that?

If the legal process takes a long time then it'll be more difficult to refer back to things that are happening now.

You need to instruct a good PI lawyer now and they can advise on these things. Interim payments will be available I'm sure as you don't want to rush into a quick settlement (equally you do want that Monaro)

My cousin and her husband weer killed young leaving two children under four who were raised by my grandparents and they received the costs involved of doing this (and the kids turned out great)

[williaa68]

Firstly, I am very, very sorry for your loss. You will likely need a good lawyer and you may have a relationship with them for many, many years so choose someone you like as well as someone competent. Hopefully you have done that already if not check out the society of trust and estate practitioners website for someone local. I cant help with the personal injury side of things but the claim could be substantial - effectively care needs to a minor for many years, so find someone good. Others on here may have recommendations.

Hopefully your lawyer is sorting out probate and hopefully too your brother made a will. Their assets, assuming they have any, should go into a testamentary trust for the benefit of your nephew when he is whatever age they specified in the will (often 21 or 25). You as the Guardian should be able to draw on the trust to meet the little chaps needs and, potentially, pay school fees etc.

If your brother or his wife had jobs it is worth checking if they had any death in service type insurance. Equally if they owned a property they may have had life cover. For the workplace insurance they may have filled in what's called an "expression of wishes" which says to whom the money should be paid.

With a minor involved it all gets rather complicated I am afraid.

[Phil Dicky]

durbster said:

Perhaps this is unfair but I worry I'll be sitting in a reception next to Barry, who is suing Adidas because he put his shoes on the wrong feet and fell over.

I would speak to your normal Solicitor and get their advice...most have someone who specializes in this aspect of law and if not will know someone who does.
Really sorry to hear of your loss and best of luck

[valais]

Fatrat said:

You need to instruct a good PI lawyer now and they can advise on these things. Interim payments will be available I'm sure as you don't want to rush into a quick settlement

Interim payments, as I understand it, make more sense - you get interim costs covered whilst the full injuries are understood - which can take years to emerge. Can be better to take a very long term view (10 years) than rush to a settlement. (I'm not a lawyer)

I'm sure one of the legal eagles can recommend a good PI lawyer and will do soon.

That, and I'm sorry for your loss and commend you for taking on the responsibility. Desperately sad - though I have seen that children are remarkably resilient, physically and mentally.

[Elroy Blue]

As someone who had dealt with many, many fatal RTCs, the best person to direct your questions to would be the FLO. If they don't know something, they can usually find out. They will keep you up to date with the investigation through regular contact. The difficult bit is that an FLO still has to do all their regular Police work, so it may take a day or two before you get the answers you're looking for.

[jagracer]

Deepest condolences on your loss. One thing I haven't noticed so I'm sorry if it's already been said but shouldn't there be some sort of claim for the child's loss of parents and probable 18 years support the child would've received had this terrible thing not happened?
What happened to the third party and was he insured?

[RSoovy4]

durbster said:

Thanks for the comments. Forgot to add that my wife and I will be his guardians from now on. My wife is giving up her job to look after him full time so that's about 35% off our income although she may be entitled to adopters leave or something so we're looking into that. To put it in PH terms, I have officially cancelled my search for a Monaro.

If we were to pursue a PI claim after any potential court case, should we be doing something like getting a doctor to formally document his development do you think e.g. if he has learning problems or anything like that?

If the legal process takes a long time then it'll be more difficult to refer back to things that are happening now.

Right. (Very) serious hat on for once.

First of all, sorry for your tragic loss, and for the poor child.



1. The child will be entitled to be compensated by one or other insurer (sounds like the LR driver's but we'll see). This compensation will be paid in due course based on what is needed for his lifetime (i.e. if he needs care for brain damage etc) plus any other costs arising out of the accident (written off car, lost earnings, alrterations to your property, costs of special schooling etc etc etc).

2. Your insurer SHOULD deal with everything on this by instructing a firm of solicitors to act on its behalf (so that a claim brought on behalf of the child is pursued against the LR driver's insurer). That's part of what the premiums pay for. What is it that makes you say they are not being very good? Have they instructed solicitors yet? The insurer should be pursuing this on the child's behalf (and ergo by implication yours, as you will probably end up holding the compensation paid on trust for his care).

3. You may be entitled to some sort of interim payment to cover immediate costs arising such as lost earnings and alterations to your property etc - this will tide you over until the main payment in (1) is forthcoming. SOMEONE here is to blame and SOMEONE will be paying compensation - the courts will therefore order that one or other (or more likely both) insurers pays some money quickly in the interim and they can sort out the finer details later once liability is established finally.

4. Did either of the parents have life cover throuigh work or otherwise. This may pay out a LARGE amount. Check with their HR departments. For example my cover is £500,000 cash if I am killed in this way.

5. If you are unsure of anything, then speak to a SPECIALIST solicitor, and I mean a BIG SPECIALIST FIRM. No affiliation here but Kennedys in London are renowned for this sort of thing and I've dealt with them a few times. if you want me to I can effect an introduction to someone senior there. They will undoubtedly not charge you to discuss the matter informally for an hour or two.

6. Did your brother and wife have a will? What does it say about what happens if they die and the child survives? Does the house pass to you or to the child with you as trustee? You need to know.

In time the child will be paid a sum of money, dependent on many factors, and the parents assets will go according to their wills.


Look, sometimes Soovy can be a right pillock, but on this one I can assure you that the man behind him is right behind you.

If you want help then PM me - I am not PI practitioner but I understand the basics. If you will keep it (and my real world identity) to yourself I will happily PM you my mobile number so that you can ask any questions you may have on this.

I am quite sure than my colleagues breadvan72 (barrister) and agtlaw (motoring solicitor) amongst others will be along shortly to offer the same assistance.

Edited to add Zod (sorry chum)

Edited by RSoovy4 on Wednesday 25th September 15:24

[valais]

^^^^
Listen to this man. There are a few true legal eagles here, and captain Soovy is one of the best.

[anonymous-user]

durbster said:

Thanks for the comments. Forgot to add that my wife and I will be his guardians from now on. My wife is giving up her job to look after him full time so that's about 35% off our income although she may be entitled to adopters leave or something so we're looking into that. To put it in PH terms, I have officially cancelled my search for a Monaro.

I have nothing to add except my sympathies to you and your family, and I absolutely take my hat off to you for taking the steps to become his guardians. What an absolutely horrific situation to have to deal with. You're good people.

[S10GTA]

OpulentBob said:

durbster said:

Thanks for the comments. Forgot to add that my wife and I will be his guardians from now on. My wife is giving up her job to look after him full time so that's about 35% off our income although she may be entitled to adopters leave or something so we're looking into that. To put it in PH terms, I have officially cancelled my search for a Monaro.

I have nothing to add except my sympathies to you and your family, and I absolutely take my hat off to you for taking the steps to become his guardians. What an absolutely horrific situation to have to deal with. You're good people.

What he said. I can't add anything of use, but having a little one at home makes this kind of thing more real. Well done for looking after the little one, I'm sure there will be hard times ahead but I'm sure you will do what is right for him. Well done, you have my utmost respect.

Edited by S10GTA on Wednesday 25th September 15:18