What's Wrong With American Cops?
Discussion
XJ Flyer said:
That small corner of England seems to have a disproportionate share of notorious unhinged individuals.Brady and Hindley lived in Hattersley.
Shipman lived and practised in Hyde.
Red Devil said:
XJ Flyer said:
That small corner of England seems to have a disproportionate share of notorious unhinged individuals.Brady and Hindley lived in Hattersley.
Shipman lived and practised in Hyde.
Streaky, I'd have been disappointed if someone didn't go for the bait.
Tannedbaldhead said:
Today's news tells us US cops can now apply for senior positions within the UK Police. Hmmmmmm. Suddenly a bit of general gassing becomes a bit more relevant.
carinaman said:
So the flak Winsor is getting is likely to be faced by anyone coming into the police from outside, be it direct entry or whatever, which is how it is in many other organisations not just the police.
From the thread on Winsor's get up at Cardiff on Sunday 29 Sept. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Any grumblings about outsiders isn't helped much by Andrew MITCHELL and the Plebgate debacle is it?
Why is my quote where I've quoted myself in blue? Do you think it's a sign?
spitsfire said:
XJ Flyer said:
I think this story alone blows that argument out of the water.I'm guessing that had that been downtown USA the outcome for the criminal and for the police would have been very different being that the police over there would ( rightly ) be viewing it as a situation involving possibly someone who's armed and dangerous to almost paranoid levels.Which of course gets them discredited here but seen as heroes over there.So who's wrong and who's right in that case.
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manch...
Don't see the relevance THB - previous posts talking about the part played by stress, whereas that article is about a scumbag luring 2 unarmed officers into a trap and murdering them. A case that was both brutal and very unusual.www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manch...
XJ Flyer said:
spitsfire said:
XJ Flyer said:
I think this story alone blows that argument out of the water.I'm guessing that had that been downtown USA the outcome for the criminal and for the police would have been very different being that the police over there would ( rightly ) be viewing it as a situation involving possibly someone who's armed and dangerous to almost paranoid levels.Which of course gets them discredited here but seen as heroes over there.So who's wrong and who's right in that case.
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manch...
Don't see the relevance THB - previous posts talking about the part played by stress, whereas that article is about a scumbag luring 2 unarmed officers into a trap and murdering them. A case that was both brutal and very unusual.www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manch...
As I said over the page, he wasted so much ammunition if he wanted to kill more, inc. police he could have just walked into a police station and let off a few of his hand grenades there. It doesn't bear thinking about.
As I said on the Winsor garb at Cardiff thread, it was reported that the armed gangs in Manchester saw some proper enforcement once PCs Bone and Hughes were killed. Why weren't they come down on harder, sooner? So the deal is that criminals are managed in society because we can't or won't put them in jail, it's just that the police and politicians aren't telling us that that is how it is? How much powers and the use of arms is related to the illegal supply of drugs?
Given the Brazilian would be Honda Hornet thief getting summary justice in the street, was his outstretched left hand pointing the gun at the officer? Was it loaded? So both the thief and the police officer could have been shot dead?
In my post of yesterday when I mooted that Cregan could have done far worse and how that may have effected any public debate on the arming of the police, look at the way Derrick Bird, that chap that killed a dozen or so around Whitehaven in 2010, was dealt with versus the way the LAPD shot up three innocents in two separate Pick Ups trying to get Dorner.
Or the shooting of those three people in two separate pick ups bears more comparison with the 63 year old stroke victim getting tasered for the crime of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and carrying a white stick, and Jean Charles de Menezes getting shot on the tube?
I don't suppose any officers, by mistake or intention, ever put stuff in their PNBs that they've taken from what they were told over the radio versus what they actually witnessed when they got to the scene. It's a bit like trying to spot your partner in a crowded night club or meet on a blind date at a BSB meet at Donington, people can program themselves in to see what they want to see, surely like motor accidents having multiple contributory factors, surely stress and voices in the ears could lead people to see what they want to see.
As I said on the Winsor garb at Cardiff thread, it was reported that the armed gangs in Manchester saw some proper enforcement once PCs Bone and Hughes were killed. Why weren't they come down on harder, sooner? So the deal is that criminals are managed in society because we can't or won't put them in jail, it's just that the police and politicians aren't telling us that that is how it is? How much powers and the use of arms is related to the illegal supply of drugs?
Given the Brazilian would be Honda Hornet thief getting summary justice in the street, was his outstretched left hand pointing the gun at the officer? Was it loaded? So both the thief and the police officer could have been shot dead?
In my post of yesterday when I mooted that Cregan could have done far worse and how that may have effected any public debate on the arming of the police, look at the way Derrick Bird, that chap that killed a dozen or so around Whitehaven in 2010, was dealt with versus the way the LAPD shot up three innocents in two separate Pick Ups trying to get Dorner.
Or the shooting of those three people in two separate pick ups bears more comparison with the 63 year old stroke victim getting tasered for the crime of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and carrying a white stick, and Jean Charles de Menezes getting shot on the tube?
I don't suppose any officers, by mistake or intention, ever put stuff in their PNBs that they've taken from what they were told over the radio versus what they actually witnessed when they got to the scene. It's a bit like trying to spot your partner in a crowded night club or meet on a blind date at a BSB meet at Donington, people can program themselves in to see what they want to see, surely like motor accidents having multiple contributory factors, surely stress and voices in the ears could lead people to see what they want to see.
Edited by carinaman on Monday 14th October 23:43
Bigends said:
XJ Flyer said:
spitsfire said:
XJ Flyer said:
I think this story alone blows that argument out of the water.I'm guessing that had that been downtown USA the outcome for the criminal and for the police would have been very different being that the police over there would ( rightly ) be viewing it as a situation involving possibly someone who's armed and dangerous to almost paranoid levels.Which of course gets them discredited here but seen as heroes over there.So who's wrong and who's right in that case.
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manch...
Don't see the relevance THB - previous posts talking about the part played by stress, whereas that article is about a scumbag luring 2 unarmed officers into a trap and murdering them. A case that was both brutal and very unusual.www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manch...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPU5BF1x3s8
So I was lucky the first time I went to Texas that I got out of the car in the rain with my right hand and map tucked inside the left front of my unzipped jacket?
The police officer I approached in the car didn't seem at all jumpy. Perhaps he thought we were lost college kids, but it was Nov. rather than Sept. I guess we could have looked like three college kids still trying to find their way around town, or being a thriving hub of business was used to strangers getting lost?
The police officer I approached in the car didn't seem at all jumpy. Perhaps he thought we were lost college kids, but it was Nov. rather than Sept. I guess we could have looked like three college kids still trying to find their way around town, or being a thriving hub of business was used to strangers getting lost?
Tannedbaldhead said:
Today's news tells us US cops can now apply for senior positions within the UK Police. Hmmmmmm. Suddenly a bit of general gassing becomes a bit more relevant.
Excellent. Because that's what UK policing and criminal justice really needs: Increase incarceration: Increase re-offending rates: Spend more money on criminal justice for worse results (ie spend more cash but have more crime): And most importantly, make policy based on populist rhetoric rather than evidence and empirical research. I really can't understand the attraction of 'US style' policing, to the public, policy makers or the police themselves. I watched a TV series called 'Southland' a while ago, and enjoyed the fact it wasn't the usual saccharin NCIS junk, but found it quite depressing in it's portrayal of the underbelly of American policing. BTW I'm sure it's not realistic, but it's probably closer than most other crime dramas......
XJ Flyer said:
Going by the previous discussions here there's a reasonable chance that it wouldn't have been seen as a 'routine' job and would probably have involved more police all well armed taking a very cautious approach based on the idea that the call might just as easily involve someone who was armed and dangerous as being 'routine'.The fact is in the States that paranoia has always been there amongst US law enforcement and often with good reason.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPU5BF1x3s8
But if it obviously a high-risk call out, why weren't armed officers used? That suggests either a massive cock-up, or else it was just a normal callout, in which case your argument falls over anyway. www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPU5BF1x3s8
Either way, I'd rather not be policed by 'paranoid' officers carrying guns. As the previous bit was getting into jumpiness + firearms does not end well.....
spitsfire said:
Either way, I'd rather not be policed by 'paranoid' officers carrying guns. As the previous bit was getting into jumpiness + firearms does not end well.....
Quite.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2445814/Se...
So what we'll have is a bunch of tooled-up baseball cap wearing meatheads waving their toys around at all and sundry whilst screaming their heads off.
Wonderful.
Doubtless it will end badly for some poor sod who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time but, hey, omelettes/eggs and all that, anyway, lessons will be learned, eh?
smegmore said:
spitsfire said:
Either way, I'd rather not be policed by 'paranoid' officers carrying guns. As the previous bit was getting into jumpiness + firearms does not end well.....
Quite.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2445814/Se...
So what we'll have is a bunch of tooled-up baseball cap wearing meatheads waving their toys around at all and sundry whilst screaming their heads off.
Wonderful.
Doubtless it will end badly for some poor sod who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time but, hey, omelettes/eggs and all that, anyway, lessons will be learned, eh?
La Liga said:
smegmore said:
spitsfire said:
Either way, I'd rather not be policed by 'paranoid' officers carrying guns. As the previous bit was getting into jumpiness + firearms does not end well.....
Quite.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2445814/Se...
So what we'll have is a bunch of tooled-up baseball cap wearing meatheads waving their toys around at all and sundry whilst screaming their heads off.
Wonderful.
Doubtless it will end badly for some poor sod who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time but, hey, omelettes/eggs and all that, anyway, lessons will be learned, eh?
If so, what's the point?
Serious question.
smegmore said:
La Liga said:
smegmore said:
spitsfire said:
Either way, I'd rather not be policed by 'paranoid' officers carrying guns. As the previous bit was getting into jumpiness + firearms does not end well.....
Quite.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2445814/Se...
So what we'll have is a bunch of tooled-up baseball cap wearing meatheads waving their toys around at all and sundry whilst screaming their heads off.
Wonderful.
Doubtless it will end badly for some poor sod who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time but, hey, omelettes/eggs and all that, anyway, lessons will be learned, eh?
If so, what's the point?
Serious question.
I believed there are new powers to actually compel the police to help them rather than just ask.
La Liga said:
t brings a few agencies together under the same umbrella, which can be positive. I think there's a degree of politics involved of "showing we're doing something", and something "new" is always a way to try and do that.
I believed there are new powers to actually compel the police to help them rather than just ask.
Thanks for the clarification. I believed there are new powers to actually compel the police to help them rather than just ask.
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