What's Wrong With American Cops?
Discussion
mph1977 said:
firstly the UK model for use of force is rather different to the US model - the US model is still very much shoot first and ask questions later.
secondly while some of the big city Forces in the US are high performing services and up there with the best of the rest of the world , a lot of the US is small forces , managed by political appointees and suffering from significant nepotism
despite the allegations made aobut the standards of education and training of UK police officers, there are a hell of a lot of Officers with level 3 and HE qualifications NOT on the fast track schemes , PIRT is none trivial not to mention the standards required across basic training and during probation aside from the CKP etc etc and other academic accreditation of training ( echoing the moves over the past 50 or so years in so many other professional jobs)
The UK certainly seems to have a much superior Police service than many US states. There does seem to be a nervousness about people who aren't white which seems to lead to unarmed people being shot/assaulted by the Police.secondly while some of the big city Forces in the US are high performing services and up there with the best of the rest of the world , a lot of the US is small forces , managed by political appointees and suffering from significant nepotism
despite the allegations made aobut the standards of education and training of UK police officers, there are a hell of a lot of Officers with level 3 and HE qualifications NOT on the fast track schemes , PIRT is none trivial not to mention the standards required across basic training and during probation aside from the CKP etc etc and other academic accreditation of training ( echoing the moves over the past 50 or so years in so many other professional jobs)
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/04/08/us/south-caro...
Check out the officer's version of events and what the video shows. If there was no video, this officer will have got away with murder.
Planting evidence? Get outta here! A cop will never do that!
Check out the officer's version of events and what the video shows. If there was no video, this officer will have got away with murder.
Planting evidence? Get outta here! A cop will never do that!
Only in America.
An absolute trgedy for the family.
Pigsh t thick Policeman.
But watch how it will all get twisted.
Take your pick from below.
First Degree murder - I have had a chance to think about it (maybe a few seconds, maybe years) and have decided to kill you. and I kill you.
Second degree murder (voluntary) - I have decided to kill you, but I decided it spur of the moment, without giving it much thought. and I kill you.
Voluntary Manslaughter - I thought I was defending myself reasonably when I killed you, but I was wrong. OR I decided to kill you spur of the moment (like second degree) but you had provoked me first in a way that a reasonable person might find partially excuses my action, and when I killed you I was still in the heat of passion from that provocation.
Involuntary Manslaughter - I do something really, really dangerous, but not quite as dangerous as involuntary second degree murder. You die as a result.
My money is on Voluntary Manslaughter.
And he'll get five years, but he'll still get his pension.
Family will fight fight fight, and eventually get paid off.
They'll never get their man back, and the money will cause massive fightds within the family.
Cop comes pout after two and a half years, and get a job as a security guard.
As I said.
Only in America
An absolute trgedy for the family.
Pigsh t thick Policeman.
But watch how it will all get twisted.
Take your pick from below.
First Degree murder - I have had a chance to think about it (maybe a few seconds, maybe years) and have decided to kill you. and I kill you.
Second degree murder (voluntary) - I have decided to kill you, but I decided it spur of the moment, without giving it much thought. and I kill you.
Voluntary Manslaughter - I thought I was defending myself reasonably when I killed you, but I was wrong. OR I decided to kill you spur of the moment (like second degree) but you had provoked me first in a way that a reasonable person might find partially excuses my action, and when I killed you I was still in the heat of passion from that provocation.
Involuntary Manslaughter - I do something really, really dangerous, but not quite as dangerous as involuntary second degree murder. You die as a result.
My money is on Voluntary Manslaughter.
And he'll get five years, but he'll still get his pension.
Family will fight fight fight, and eventually get paid off.
They'll never get their man back, and the money will cause massive fightds within the family.
Cop comes pout after two and a half years, and get a job as a security guard.
As I said.
Only in America
stuttgartmetal said:
My money is on Voluntary Manslaughter.
And he'll get five years, but he'll still get his pension.
Family will fight fight fight, and eventually get paid off.
They'll never get their man back, and the money will cause massive fightds within the family.
Cop comes pout after two and a half years, and get a job as a security guard.
As I said.
Only in America
More likely the prosecutor will push for second degree, DA will throw it out, officer will get away with it and get a job in a different police force.And he'll get five years, but he'll still get his pension.
Family will fight fight fight, and eventually get paid off.
They'll never get their man back, and the money will cause massive fightds within the family.
Cop comes pout after two and a half years, and get a job as a security guard.
As I said.
Only in America
Also while all that goes on officer will be on administrative leave on pay.
hora said:
If that (brave IMO) person wasn't there filming the dead man would have been classed as firmly the aggressor/attacker.
Are we in a position to criticise? I wonder what would have happened in the Ian Tomlinson case if the tourist had not captured it on camera and given it to the press. The actions of PC Harwood were witnessed by several other Police Officers who saw no reason to report it until the recording was known about.rewc said:
Are we in a position to criticise? I wonder what would have happened in the Ian Tomlinson case if the tourist had not captured it on camera and given it to the press. The actions of PC Harwood were witnessed by several other Police Officers who saw no reason to report it until the recording was known about.
It was reported by officers, which led to more being contacted to give statements, many of which were in the major incident room, in possession of the investigators being run by the City of London police prior to the 'push' footage emerging. There aren't parallels here.
La Liga said:
rewc said:
Are we in a position to criticise? I wonder what would have happened in the Ian Tomlinson case if the tourist had not captured it on camera and given it to the press. The actions of PC Harwood were witnessed by several other Police Officers who saw no reason to report it until the recording was known about.
It was reported by officers, which led to more being contacted to give statements, many of which were in the major incident room, in possession of the investigators being run by the City of London police prior to the 'push' footage emerging. There aren't parallels here.
I've only learned of PCC Adam Simmonds recently from someone posting his comments about demanding to know why Northants police let Cyril Smith go after he was stopped on the M1 with child porn in his car. I wasn't aware of him previously and some of his agenda seems to be about something else other than policing, but the IPCC media team phoning up his media team and telling them about complaints against him from a few years ago is just plain wrong.
It seems standard public sector/police smear tactics. It reminds me of the BBC helicopter hovering over Cliff Richard's pad while SYP searched it.
What's Wrong with American Cops?
What's Right with the IPCC?
Edited by carinaman on Wednesday 8th April 16:09
Bookmark this page and keep checking it: https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/page/working-us
Then you'll have the opportunity to move from the vastly over-populated world of those who can only find 'problems', to those who actually do something to solve them.
Then you'll have the opportunity to move from the vastly over-populated world of those who can only find 'problems', to those who actually do something to solve them.
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. We can hardly poke fun at American police while we have problems in our own country.
Police not telling the truth at the earliest opportunity and muddying the water with misleading information could be the cause of problems. 'Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime etc.
Police not telling the truth at the earliest opportunity and muddying the water with misleading information could be the cause of problems. 'Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime etc.
That's a good generalisation.
We have equality issues in this country so shouldn't criticise those who don't allow women to vote, for example.
Any major problem somewhere else will have likely have a less intense derivative in our own country. I guess being critical of those is off the cards, too.
We have equality issues in this country so shouldn't criticise those who don't allow women to vote, for example.
Any major problem somewhere else will have likely have a less intense derivative in our own country. I guess being critical of those is off the cards, too.
carinaman said:
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. We can hardly poke fun at American police while we have problems in our own country.
Police not telling the truth at the earliest opportunity and muddying the water with misleading information could be the cause of problems. 'Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime etc.
I saw a Toyota Carina today and I thought of you. And then I thought, Wow, what a sPolice not telling the truth at the earliest opportunity and muddying the water with misleading information could be the cause of problems. 'Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime etc.
t car.carinaman said:
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. We can hardly poke fun at American police while we have problems in our own country.
Police not telling the truth at the earliest opportunity and muddying the water with misleading information could be the cause of problems. 'Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime etc.
you are beyond a parody carinaman.Police not telling the truth at the earliest opportunity and muddying the water with misleading information could be the cause of problems. 'Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime etc.
carinaman said:
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. We can hardly poke fun at American police while we have problems in our own country.
Police not telling the truth at the earliest opportunity and muddying the water with misleading information could be the cause of problems. 'Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime etc.
So any country with a less than perfect system cannot comment on the more significant problems of another country?Police not telling the truth at the earliest opportunity and muddying the water with misleading information could be the cause of problems. 'Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime etc.
Given that perfection doesn't exisit and any system will have issues to some extent then by your standard no one can ever comment on anything.
There are problems in this country but they seem quite a bit less significant than in the US. I don't recall he last time a UK officer put 8 bullets into the back of a man who was running away after a routine traffic stop.
Devil2575 said:
carinaman said:
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. We can hardly poke fun at American police while we have problems in our own country.
Police not telling the truth at the earliest opportunity and muddying the water with misleading information could be the cause of problems. 'Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime etc.
So any country with a less than perfect system cannot comment on the more significant problems of another country?Police not telling the truth at the earliest opportunity and muddying the water with misleading information could be the cause of problems. 'Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime etc.
Given that perfection doesn't exisit and any system will have issues to some extent then by your standard no one can ever comment on anything.
There are problems in this country but they seem quite a bit less significant than in the US. I don't recall he last time a UK officer put 8 bullets into the back of a man who was running away after a routine traffic stop.
Oh, hang on...
No axes to grind against the Police here or anywhere else. All I want, same as most people, is that justice is evenly applied.
carinaman said:
Martin4x4 said:
American Police manage to kill around 20 innocent Americans for every officer killed in the line of duty
Washington Post: What America’s police departments don’t want you to know
We'll soon catch up with them once we've spent £70 Million equipping every officer with personal protection Tasers.Washington Post: What America’s police departments don’t want you to know
9mm said:
I think it was a full clip into the head of some bloke called Menezes who was apparently running away.
Oh, hang on...
No axes to grind against the Police here or anywhere else. All I want, same as most people, is that justice is evenly applied.
That was not in any way shape or form the same thing. It was also a very rare occurance. The number of people shot and killed by UK Police is tiny, in fact no one was shot and killed in 2012/13 and in the preceeding 4 years the total was 9.Oh, hang on...
No axes to grind against the Police here or anywhere else. All I want, same as most people, is that justice is evenly applied.
Devil2575 said:
9mm said:
I think it was a full clip into the head of some bloke called Menezes who was apparently running away.
Oh, hang on...
No axes to grind against the Police here or anywhere else. All I want, same as most people, is that justice is evenly applied.
That was not in any way shape or form the same thing. It was also a very rare occurance. The number of people shot and killed by UK Police is tiny, in fact no one was shot and killed in 2012/13 and in the preceeding 4 years the total was 9.Oh, hang on...
No axes to grind against the Police here or anywhere else. All I want, same as most people, is that justice is evenly applied.
Devil2575 said:
9mm said:
I think it was a full clip into the head of some bloke called Menezes who was apparently running away.
Oh, hang on...
No axes to grind against the Police here or anywhere else. All I want, same as most people, is that justice is evenly applied.
That was not in any way shape or form the same thing. It was also a very rare occurance. The number of people shot and killed by UK Police is tiny, in fact no one was shot and killed in 2012/13 and in the preceeding 4 years the total was 9.Oh, hang on...
No axes to grind against the Police here or anywhere else. All I want, same as most people, is that justice is evenly applied.
No argument from me that it's a rare thing and I have not tried to imply anything else. FWIW I think the UK Police are immeasurably better than their US counterparts.
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