What's Wrong With American Cops?
Discussion
Greendubber said:
Mk3Spitfire said:
And I don't think it will be "soon" if ever.
I'm sure there are the official stats somewhere, but very few people die from the actual taser, it's the fall that does the damage.
Secondary injuries and other health issues, no one has been 'tasered to death' I'm sure there are the official stats somewhere, but very few people die from the actual taser, it's the fall that does the damage.
Ghettocide, book of the Week on Radio 4:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05wp70d
Posted as some of it may be relevant to the stuff in the news about Ferguson, Baltimore and Cleveland, but also the second episode that mentions some computerised system to match bullets to guns reminded me of some of the posts by PHer and former police officer Derek Smith.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05wp70d
Posted as some of it may be relevant to the stuff in the news about Ferguson, Baltimore and Cleveland, but also the second episode that mentions some computerised system to match bullets to guns reminded me of some of the posts by PHer and former police officer Derek Smith.
An interesting view on the problem with US cops.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02r6snh
Worth a listen if you're interested.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02r6snh
Worth a listen if you're interested.
Greendubber said:
Mk3Spitfire said:
And I don't think it will be "soon" if ever.
I'm sure there are the official stats somewhere, but very few people die from the actual taser, it's the fall that does the damage.
Secondary injuries and other health issues, no one has been 'tasered to death' I'm sure there are the official stats somewhere, but very few people die from the actual taser, it's the fall that does the damage.
Or, then again, tasered to death may well be a fair term of reference should someone be tasered and die.
carinaman said:
Sandra Bland. 
The video is staggering:http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/21/san...
It's very hard to see what she was doing which justified that kind of treatment.
N Dentressangle said:
carinaman said:
Sandra Bland.
The video is staggering:http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/21/san...
It's very hard to see what she was doing which justified that kind of treatment.
king hell...carinaman said:
As much as I find the lack of indicating inconvenient and sometimes downright dangerous such infractions don't really deserve death.
Didn't she hang herself? I think you're making a rather large leap with the cause and effect. The road-side incident is a mess and the officer certainly did a good job of escalating it, but she certainly didn't help matters at the road side, either.
She actually changed lanes last minute without signalling because she was giving way to the officer who was quickly gaining on her. To be ordered out of your car for refusing to put out a cigarette is a total abuse of power.
No doubt the police lovers will soon be on here to tell you to comply first and sue them later. What they fail to tell you is that it costs thousands to sue the police and you have the threat of massive costs hanging over your head should you lose in a system heavilly skewed in favour of the police.
My mate has just been told he may be liable for £21,000 in the police legal costs should he lose his case. It looks like he is going to drop the case as one doesnt know what side of the bed the judge will wake up on.
Another victory for rotten coppers. I despair
No doubt the police lovers will soon be on here to tell you to comply first and sue them later. What they fail to tell you is that it costs thousands to sue the police and you have the threat of massive costs hanging over your head should you lose in a system heavilly skewed in favour of the police.
My mate has just been told he may be liable for £21,000 in the police legal costs should he lose his case. It looks like he is going to drop the case as one doesnt know what side of the bed the judge will wake up on.
Another victory for rotten coppers. I despair
La Liga said:
carinaman said:
As much as I find the lack of indicating inconvenient and sometimes downright dangerous such infractions don't really deserve death.
Didn't she hang herself? I think you're making a rather large leap with the cause and effect. The road-side incident is a mess and the officer certainly did a good job of escalating it, but she certainly didn't help matters at the road side, either.
Haven't they had to then subsequently release a video that shows the whole incident without any post production manipulation?
Agreed, the officer escalated it.
I've a colleague that has someone in their family with mental health issues. It's their experience that when the police get involved they seem to antagonise and escalate the problem. That would agree with my own experience of that constabulary.
The officer seemed intent on picking any excuse to pick fault.
That would indicate that either the officer has a problem with her conduct or he has a problem with the individual themselves.
If an officer goes in at 10 in terms of attitude, tone and threats they don't leave themselves with many options do they?
They either have to back down or ramp it up.
Listening to the officer discussing what happened after the tow truck arrived is a bit 'the dog ate my homework'.
La Liga said:
idn't she hang herself? I think you're making a rather large leap with the cause and effect.
The road-side incident is a mess and the officer certainly did a good job of escalating it, but she certainly didn't help matters at the road side, either.
UK police (in my experience) usually do a far more skilful and professional job in managing and containing situations with truculent or abusive members of the public, though.The road-side incident is a mess and the officer certainly did a good job of escalating it, but she certainly didn't help matters at the road side, either.
Bland is alleged to have committed suicide in custody. It's difficult to see why she was there in the first place, and I would doubt she would have been following a traffic stop in the UK, for example.
There will always be questions about the role of the police following deaths in custody, especially when in this case custody seems so unjustifiable.
There are two aspects to this: the stop on the street and the death.
From the reports it would appear she hanged herself. This might not be the case but if it is, then there are circumstances that might suggest lack of care. The equivalent of 'our' custody officer has to take account of a prisoner's conduct at prisoner reception and then make a judgment of how close to supervise. It is a job that requires experience and resources. In this case, if the suggestion that it was 90 mins between visits then there is a case of lack of supervision on the face of it, but a hanging takes less than a minute.
The scenario on the street would suggest to me a certain lack of experience in dealing with people in a confrontational situation. He seemed to have ample opportunity to back down but decided not to. Not a good move. It is odd as a police officer in such circs can always come out on top by issuing a ticket.
As I say, two aspects.
From the reports it would appear she hanged herself. This might not be the case but if it is, then there are circumstances that might suggest lack of care. The equivalent of 'our' custody officer has to take account of a prisoner's conduct at prisoner reception and then make a judgment of how close to supervise. It is a job that requires experience and resources. In this case, if the suggestion that it was 90 mins between visits then there is a case of lack of supervision on the face of it, but a hanging takes less than a minute.
The scenario on the street would suggest to me a certain lack of experience in dealing with people in a confrontational situation. He seemed to have ample opportunity to back down but decided not to. Not a good move. It is odd as a police officer in such circs can always come out on top by issuing a ticket.
As I say, two aspects.
carinaman said:
In a British custody suite I don't think she'd have been given a black bin liner to hang herself with.
The police in my force always used to remove belts in order to ensure that prisoners could not hang themselves. This was challenged in one force that had a similar requirement by a brief, to the effect that it was an infringement of the person's rights. I never did hear the outcome of it but the custody officers in my force were told to make an assessment of the likelihood of a prisoner harming themselves. Whilst it would have been easy for a CO to say all prisoners were likely to harm themselves, if a person did kill themselves, but was not given close supervision, then the fact that the belt was removed would have been evidence that they should have been on the at risk list. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Looking at the US news coverage it seems that a previous suicide attempt is mentioned in one place on the documentation from when the late Sandra Bland was booked into custody and then not on another part of that documentation.
So someone being booked into custody divulges a previous suicide attempt and are then given something to hang themselves with?
That makes as much sense as releasing a hacked about video from the police car.
BiB here and other places mention the press only revealing partial details so as to skew the story or the perception of the police, look at the case of Christopher Jefferies in Bristol and how the police and the press worked to discredit and smear him, but in this case the police released a hacked about video of the incident.
So someone being booked into custody divulges a previous suicide attempt and are then given something to hang themselves with?
That makes as much sense as releasing a hacked about video from the police car.
BiB here and other places mention the press only revealing partial details so as to skew the story or the perception of the police, look at the case of Christopher Jefferies in Bristol and how the police and the press worked to discredit and smear him, but in this case the police released a hacked about video of the incident.
carinaman said:
Looking at the US news coverage it seems that a previous suicide attempt is mentioned in one place on the documentation from when the late Sandra Bland was booked into custody and then not on another part of that documentation.
So someone being booked into custody divulges a previous suicide attempt and are then given something to hang themselves with?
That makes as much sense as releasing a hacked about video from the police car.
BiB here and other places mention the press only revealing partial details so as to skew the story or the perception of the police, look at the case of Christopher Jefferies in Bristol and how the police and the press worked to discredit and smear him, but in this case the police released a hacked about video of the incident.
Sorry to quote you. I thought we were talking about this incident.So someone being booked into custody divulges a previous suicide attempt and are then given something to hang themselves with?
That makes as much sense as releasing a hacked about video from the police car.
BiB here and other places mention the press only revealing partial details so as to skew the story or the perception of the police, look at the case of Christopher Jefferies in Bristol and how the police and the press worked to discredit and smear him, but in this case the police released a hacked about video of the incident.
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